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From: daniel@hexagon.pkmab.se (Daniel Deimert)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Demos and Games are not the Same
Keywords: demo, graphics, german, games, programming
Message-ID: <302@hexagon.pkmab.se>
Date: 17 Jul 90 20:11:15 GMT
References: <1990Jun27.201016.27871@wam.umd.edu> <190@hexagon.pkmab.se> <4954@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk>
Reply-To: daniel@hexagon.pkmab.se (Daniel Deimert)
Organization: Hexagon Computer Club, Tech College of OErebro, Sweden
Lines: 55

In article <4954@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes:
>In article <190@hexagon.pkmab.se> daniel@hexagon.pkmab.se (Daniel Deimert) writes:
>>Some techniques used in demos are very usuable when programming games,
>>though.  For example -- imagine all ST games were using overscan and
>>4-channel sampled sound.  This is not impossible, though the music does
>>consume some cpu-time (around 12%, depending on it's maximum sample
>>rate).
>
>This overscan technique is crud. It depends heavily on undocumented side
>effects in the GLUE chip and thus will not work on all ST's and definately
>not on an STE. We have had all sorts of problems with programs abusing
>undocumented memory locations so please don't start hardware weirdness too.

  With some minor changes of the timing it can be made working on the
STE as well.  Actually, there ARE games which uses these 'features' of
the GLUE and the MMU. [ I know of "Chambers of Shaolin" ]

  Perhaps the ST community will have to start using everything they
can to survive.  In Sweden, and as I hear in Norway too, ST sales are
low, and the game sales even lower.  Myself, I sell about five or six
Amigas for each ST, and perhaps 20 Amiga games per ST game.
  I don't like it.  I don't like Nintendo games consoles either, but
they sell good.  The reality is catching up on us.  If I were to make
a game -- I wouldn't even think of ST in the first place.


>>And games which have good graphics (ie large, eye-catching sprites) are
>>easier to sell in a store.  Kids tends to pick a colorful game rather
>>than the dull and gloomy equivalent.
>
>Any dopey kid who buys the crap because it's in a glossy box and has pretty
>pictures deserves to get ripped off. Any game player will tell you it's
>playability that matters. Nethack being a fine example.

You forget that the people who intends to make a living on games
don't care about playability.  If playability makes the game sell better,
then it's good. (Sierra On-Line is a good example; great games! If you 
haven't played Hero's Quest or Conquests of Camelot yet, do it!)

  How many parents (yes, they pay, mostly) would pay 300 SEK (about $50)
on NetHack?  None.  How many parents does pay 300 SEK for a glossy box
with a worthless game in it?  Thousands.
  Many games are even MORE expensive, like Midwinter and the Sierra
games.  Dragons Lair and sequels cost about $90, but many parents like
the look of it. And where's the playability?

>At the moment the games scene is very sick. It's poor quality and big profits
>all the way and I wish it would change.

Miracles still happend, I've heard. We'll see... ;-)


-- 
Daniel Deimert			   "Only use unneccessary force if neccassary!"
daniel@hexagon.pkmab.se                  ...!sunic!kullmar!pkmab!hexagon!daniel