Xref: utzoo comp.sys.apollo:5809 comp.sys.hp:5619 Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!dptg!ulysses!andante!mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!mel.dit.csiro.au!yarra!pta!metro!news From: jimr@maths.su.oz.au (Jim Richardson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo,comp.sys.hp Subject: Netpower: Apollo/HP contrast (was: HP Common Lisp question) Summary: It's the Apollo customers who are suffering Keywords: Apollo Division service resources APR software upgrade Message-ID: <1990Jul14.085541.18550@metro.ucc.su.OZ.AU> Date: 14 Jul 90 08:55:41 GMT References: <344@shrike.AUSTIN.LOCKHEED.COM> <1340130@hpclsun.HP.COM> Sender: news@metro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (news) Reply-To: jimr@maths.su.oz.au (Jim Richardson) Organization: Dept of Pure Mathematics, University of Sydney Lines: 103 In article <344@shrike.AUSTIN.LOCKHEED.COM> in comp.sys.hp, Daniel A Haug (aihaug@AUSTIN.LOCKHEED.COM) writes: DH> Sorry to bother the net (again!), but I've been waiting for almost DH> THREE WEEKS for HP Tech support to call me on this one!!!! (Yes, DH> I've called them back, too, over 12 TIMES!!!!!!). [I do hope that DH> some HP engineers are listening to this, along with their management!!]. DH> DH> [ ... details of Lisp problem omitted ... ] DH> DH> I'd appreciate hearing from anyone in-the-know who can shed some light DH> on this. And I apologize for offending anyone with my attitude, but DH> this kind of response from HP really stinks. I've worked with Silicon DH> Graphics, Sun, and Symbolics tech support... HP doesn't even come close. I for one am not offended by Dan's attitude: I sympathize because of my own experiences with slow response from the Apollo Division on APRs (Apollo Pro- duct Reports). Admittedly, these are written rather than telephoned. But I'd be *overjoyed* if I even got an acknowledgement in three weeks, let alone an answer. Urgent APRs that I submitted to the HP Australian Response Centre in February and March, and which they passed on to Chelmsford, have still not been officially acknowledged from there. The Australian team is making great efforts to change this, and improvements do seem to be imminent (thanks, guys), but it's been a long time coming. By the way, has anyone anywhere ever received a reply to an APR emailed to the address apr_cs_admin@apollo.hp.com given in the mkapr manual page? Or do they just ignore Australian ones? In article <1340130@hpclsun.HP.COM>, jimmyb@hpclsun.HP.COM (Jimmy Benjamin) replies: JB> Hi Dan, JB> JB> I'm Jimmy Benjamin, the product marketing engineer for HP Common Lisp. JB> I read your posting yesterday, and discussed it with our support JB> organization. Here is my understanding of the facts: JB> JB> (1) You have received an answer to your support question, namely that JB> call-by-reference is supported in HP Common Lisp. HP supports the JB> standard Lucid Common Lisp foreign function interface. JB> JB> (2) This question was received by HP's language support organization JB> during the week of July 4th, and was answered early this week. JB> JB> (3) The question was forwarded to language support by HP's on-line JB> response center, which has maintained daily contact with you JB> or your manager since the question came to their attention. It sounds as though Dan's question took a long time to get to language support, but was answered quickly once it did (after his posting, presumably, though that's no doubt coincidence). JB> We take our reputation for fine service very seriously, and are anxious JB> to solve your problems as quickly as we learn about them. ... There is a remarkable contrast between the HP side and the Apollo Division here. We've been complaining bitterly about service problems over in comp.sys.apollo for weeks, and very little has been heard from HP employees there (which is not to say I'm not grateful to the exceptions). But here's the first HP customer with a complaint I can remember for quite some time, and immediately there's a detailed response. I note that the company's newly launched range is called the "HP Apollo 9000 Series 400", and that its sales literature gives Domain/OS equal weight to HP/UX, and the Apollo DN10000 as much prominence as some existing high-end HP machine. This confirms HP's strong commitment to maintaining the Apollo Division and allowing it to flourish: I applaud it. But unfortunately this does not seem to be borne out at present in customer services. In my opinion, the staff and resources available for support of Apollos and Domain/OS are not proportionate to those on the HP/UX side. Well, I'm very glad that HP/UX customers are getting good support, because it shows what the company is capable of, and what we should be getting for our Apollos too. I believe -- or at least fervently hope -- that HP will correct the situation when we ask them to in the "netpower" open letter. (Draft 2 is slowly nearing readiness.) The consequence, however, is that the open letter should be written from the point of view of *Apollo* customers, since we're the ones suffering. There'll be some changes to the letter along these lines, and maybe discussion should move back into comp.sys.apollo. I'd still be very glad to see support and/or signatures from any HP-machine customers who sympathize, or who would like HP to provide them even better service by making effective use of the Internet. Sorry to add to an already long posting, but Jimmy Benjamin makes a last point I wish to take up as it illustrates yet another Apollo service problem. JB> You may also be interested in our upcoming release 4.0 of HP Common Lisp, JB> which supports CLOS, a tree-shaker, and more. It's already out on HP's JB> Apollo Division platforms, and will be out soon on the 9000's. ... As an Apollo customer with an upgrade contract for Lisp I am indeed interested, as this is the first I've heard of it and I have not received my upgrade (in fact I very rarely seem to receive upgrades). We're not big Lisp users, but some people like it, and we're still stuck on version 2.20 (the one that broke at Domain/OS SR10.2). When was the Apollo version released? How many Apollo customers get prompt automatic upgrades of their software under contract? -- Jim Richardson Department of Pure Mathematics, University of Sydney, NSW 2006, Australia Internet: jimr@maths.su.oz.au ACSNET: jimr@maths.su.oz FAX: +61 2 692 4534