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From: arsen@milkfs.itstd.sri.com (Tom Arseneault)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc
Subject: Re: X-Windows on PC's
Message-ID: <32422@sparkyfs.istc.sri.com>
Date: 13 Jul 90 17:56:20 GMT
References: <46500142@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> <361@caslon.cs.arizona.edu>
Sender: news@sparkyfs.istc.sri.com
Reply-To: arsen@milkfs.itstd.sri.com.UUCP (Tom Arseneault)
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park CA
Lines: 63

In article <361@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> cjeffery@cs.arizona.edu (Clinton Jeffery) writes:
>Could someone post more information about both X/11AT and the new
>Desqview/X (or whatever)--in particular, anyone who knows about:
>what versions of Windows X/11AT runs under (if any), how much it
>costs, where I can order either X/11AT or Desqview's product at
>a good price, and especially: how do these X terminals rate in the
>"dog slow" category?  Are they dog slow?  Are the Really dog slow?
>Are they as Dog Slow as I imagine a 16-bit implementation of X
>would run on a 12 MHz 16-bit architecture with almost no registers? :-)
>Or would either of these puppies make viable X terminals?
>-- 


I have been evaluating X11/AT for a client but I know almost nothing
about the Desqview X11 package. X11/AT is a server only package (this
means that your Xterms and all your other programs must run on other
machines, Suns, DECs etc) and runs on Windows286. It will also run on
Windows386 if started with win88 (in 286 mode) and Windows V3 in real
mode. It is incompatable with HIMEM.SYS so you must configure your
system as if it had no extended memory (makes running other windows
applications rather hard). It works with PC/TCP by FTP Software, my
system, or Excelan's The LAN Workplace running withe the EXOS (r) 205,
205T, or 205E Intelligent Ethenet controller cards. It will work with
any display and driver that windows will work with (it worked just
fine with a no name SuperVGA display card I had but when I upgraded to
an Orchid ProDesigner II I started to have network problems execpt
when I install Qemm, werid but not a X11/AT problem but it does mean I
can't test it at 1024x768x16 untill I get this solved). 

There was a problem with version 2.0 of X11/AT When I try to run
Framemaker, Framemaker would get in to werid states  and slooooooooow
way down. This seems to have been fixed in a Beta version that I got
my hands on. The beta version had much better color mapping between
the server and windows, and allows a different virtual screen size with
scrolling bars to move around the screen (Frame Maker did not work
well with this function).

Another product I tryed was PC-X view by Fraphic Software Systems. The
version did not use extended memory and handled it's own screen. As a
result it did not run Framemaker at all and has much less flexabilty
than X11/AT in the choice of monitor/card systems. To be honest I did
like the look of the screen a little better on PC-X view than X11/AT
and I did not try the extended version that would use extended memory
(they did not have either a upgrade or evaluation policy, the salesman
on the phone said that I could buy it and return it in 15 days if I
did not like it but to properly test it and do my regular Job would
require more than 15 days so I opted not to). 

All in all to summarize, if I can get the video/network problem
straightened out and test the thing at 1024x768x16 I'll know if it
will be a viable tool for XWindows but I have yet to see a X product
for the PC that does not have some sort of limitation (the lack of
virtual memory aside as all PCs share that problem) but X11/AT (beta)
is the best of the bunch so far (although keep in mind I have only
seen and played with two versions but have talked to a few other reps
and was not impressed). Oh yes one more thing both these packages must
be used on a 286 or above (rather obvious but just thought I would
mention it).


Thomas J. Arseneault
SRI International
arsen@itstd.sri.com