Xref: utzoo comp.sys.mac.misc:1500 comp.sys.mac.wanted:543 comp.sys.mac:56156 comp.sys.mac.hardware:4440 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!hardin From: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com (John Hardin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.hardware Subject: *SUMMARY* of Two-page (mono or gray scale) monitor recommendations Message-ID: Date: 19 Jul 90 18:27:38 GMT References: Sender: news@cadillac.CAD.MCC.COM Organization: MCC CAD Program, Austin, Texas Lines: 455 In-reply-to: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com's message of 16 Jul 90 16:51:09 GMT ++++ Regarding Wanted: Two-page (mono or gray scale) monitor recommendations; ++++ I said: > I currently have a MacII with the Apple 8-bit video card and the Apple > high(?:-) resolution monochrome monitor. I want to replace my > existing mono monitor with a color monitor AND buy a new two-page > mono/gs monitor. Thus, I'm looking for advice and/or good/bad > experiences with two-page mono/gs monitors. > I've listed the ones I'm considering (in the order I'm considering > them) including the best mail order prices I've seen. If you're > making a comment on one of these monitors and you know of a better > price, please let me know that, too. (If you want to recommend > something not listed that's fine, too. Just keep it (relatively) > inexpensive! :-) > * RasterOps ClearVue $1149 > * Megagraphics Megascreen Rival $999 > * Radius $1149(?) > * Ehman $899 > If interest dictates, I'll post a summary of the responses. > Thanks for any and all help, > -jwh > P.S. I HAVE read the recent reviews in MacUser and MacWorld. > -- > John Hardin, MCC CAD Program | ARPA: hardin@mcc.com | Phone: [512] 338-3535 > Box 200195, Austin, TX 78720 | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!hardin First, I want to thank all of the people that responded to this message! Several people have subsequently asked for copies of the responses I have received. I figure posting is the easiest way to respond. Here are the responses. Before you see the responses let me say that I was *quite* surprised by all of the good "press" that Ehman received. (I was surprised because I (in part based on MacUser's TPD review in the April90 issue) expected the more expensive (bigger name) brands to be better. Typical american consumer, eh? :-) Ehman received SIX recommendations while Apple, Radius, and SuperMac received (*only*) ONE each! (In some cases, Ehman was preferred over Radius and/or Apple based on actual (personal) comparisons!) Based on these recommendations (AND PRICE! :-) I'm pursuing an Ehman two-pager. Thanks again to all who responded. -jwh # From: berwick@ai.mit.edu (Professor Robert C. Berwick) # Date: Mon, 16 Jul 90 21:59:19 EDT # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: mono monitors # # We've used several of the Radius and Ehman monitors # here at the AI lab now. After using both, I'd actually # rate the Ehman's higher in clarity. Many of the # Radius' have bothersome out-of-focus patches, on the # left. The Radius price is much higher also. # R. C. Berwick # From: John Norstad # To: John Hardin # Cc: jln@acns.nwu.edu # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Date: Mon, 16 Jul 1990 21:02:42 CST # References: # Organization: Northwestern University # # I have a Radius TPD, and I love it. My advice: Get the 21" model instead # of the 19" model if you can afford it. It has the same number of pixels # across and down, but at 74 pixels per inch instead of 82 pixels per inch. # The lower pixel density is much closer to the nominal 72 pixels per inch # on the classic Mac screen. This makes 9 point text much easier to read. # # I couldn't live without my Radius! # # John Norstad # Academic Computing and Network Services # Northwestern University # jln@acns.nwu.edu # Date: Mon, 16 Jul 90 21:56:23 PDT # From: lcuff@cmc.com (Leonard Cuff) # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: Rockwell CMC # Cc: # # I have no first hand information. Have read that the radius software is the # nicest (tear-off menus, sound that works with an accelerator card) but can't # remember where I read it. Am very interested in knowing the results of your # query by mail or by posting. # # # -- # Leonard Cuff # lcuff@cmc.com # Date: Tue, 17 Jul 90 08:53:31 EDT # From: Ed Darken # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: Duke University CS Dept.; Durham, NC # Cc: # # We bought the Ehman 19" monochrome monitor for our lab. We've # had it about two months now, and there haven't been any problems # (unlike what some other people reported to the net about their # Ehman monitors). In fact, I've been pleased with it. The picture # quality is quite good. # # Of course, it took about two months and several phone calls for # Ehman to finally deliver it, which was frustrating. However, if # I was buying a monitor with my own money, I'd order one from # Ehman. I'm willing to wait a couple of months to save hundreds # of dollars. # From: stuart@pueblo.att.com # Date: Tue, 17 Jul 90 07:36 CDT # Original-From: pueblo!stuart (Stuart D Ericson +1 708 979 4491) # To: att!hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # # [...personal line deleted...] # Here are two(?) articles I collected off the net some months back. # # Enjoy! # # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # >From jeff@tc.fluke.COM Fri Feb 23 02:03:08 1990 # >Path: cbnewsc!cbnews!att!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!fluke!jeff # >From: jeff@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Stearns) # >Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware # >Subject: Ehman 19" monitor (buy one!) # >Keywords: crt monitor 19 ehman # >Message-ID: <15136@fluke.COM> # >Date: 23 Feb 90 07:03:08 GMT # >Sender: news@tc.fluke.COM # >Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA # >Lines: 87 # > # You may have noticed the ads from Ehman Engineering, offering a 19" # two-page monitor for the SE, SE/30, and Mac II. They're selling for $899. # Ehman strikes me as one of those mail-order companies that's poised # to do real darn well, and this product is going to boost them along. # # I've spent many years of my life staring into 19" monitors attached to # Sun Workstations. Sun sells a decent middle-of-the-road monitor. The # hard-to-get OCLI anti-glare coating helps a lot, making it good enough # for continuous use day after day. # # I hoped to find something this good for my Mac. The Radius full-page # display is the best Mac display I've found, but it's too small. I've # inspected two of the Radius two-page displays, and they don't come close # to the quality of the one-pager. The display was unsteady, with moderate # to severe swimming along the left edge of the screen. Focus varied across # the screen; I could never bring more than about 40% of the screen into good # focus. The salesman told me that you just focus the part that you're working # on. Right. # # I've inspected two Apple 19" displays, and they were worse; the right # 1/3 of the displays were so out-of-focus that the desktop grey pattern # really looked grey. They were plagued with nonlinearities at the edges, # and windows would grow and shrink by about 10% as they were moved around # the desktop. This strikes me as odd, since other Apple displays are generally # quite good. I thought these stunk. Both salesmen claimed not to be bothered # by them. # # I've looked at less-expensive displays like the Cornerstone, but quality # control seemed real erratic. Some were OK, and others were horrible. # # What I really wanted was something with the clarity of the Radius full-page # display, at a price under $1000. # # (If you get the chance, look closely at the NeXT display. They set a high # standard for image quality. The pixels are rock steady and sharp, and their # monitors are nicely focused and linear.) # # I took a chance on the Ehman display. It's brand new, and the only way to # see one is to buy it. It took several weeks to arrive, because Ehman has # been unable to meet the demand for them. They were honest when I placed # the order, and they even called me once to confirm that I knew it would # take a while to arrive. # # It finally arrived tonight. It was worth the wait. And it's certainly # worth the price. # # The crt is 19", but the actual image size is 17". When I first turned it # on, it was bowed at the upper left corner, but the image straightened out # after about 10 minutes. It's now perfectly rectangular and nicely focused. # # There's about one pixel's worth of very subtle ringing in the transition from # black to white. Thus the white pixels to the right edge of dark pixels # lines are ever-so-slightly darker than those at the left edge. (This visual # artifact is actually quite common on CRT's, and it takes careful amplifier # design and good cabling to combat it.) Most Sun workstations are worse than # this. # # The image is rock steady. Pixels don't swim or jitter or float before your # eyes. This is important because it helps to reduce the strain on your eyes. # # The pixels aren't quite as well focused as I'd like, but they're certainly # no worse than typical CRT's. They're not quite as sharp as on my wonderful # old SE, but they're far better than the large Apple display's I've studied. # # The specs say that the image is 1050 by 817 pixels, but I've been quoted other # numbers by Ehman folks. I suspect that the exact dimensions changed as the # product was borought to market. It refreshes at 78 Hz, so there's no visible # flicker. Phosphor is standard P104. (It's a monochrome display, and Ehman # tells me that it can't ever be upgraded to greyscale because the CRT inputs are # digital rather than analog.) # # The case looks exactly like what you'd get if you took a Sun-3 monitor to # Taiwan and told them to duplicate it. It tilts and swivels nicely. It doesn't # get hot; ventilation is ample so long as you don't lay a manual on top of the # cooling slots. (Those kind of things happen when you give up most of your # desk space.) # # It comes with Stepping Out II (as though you'd want an even bigger screen!). # # It comes with all cables and your choice of interface for the SE, SE/30, or # Mac II. # # When I ordered it, I expected that I might box it up and send it back. # No way! I hope to keep it for many years to come. # -- # Jeff Stearns John Fluke Mfg. Co, Inc. (206) 356-5064 # jeff@tc.fluke.COM {uw-beaver,microsoft,sun}!fluke!jeff # # # ------------------------------ # # Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 09:05:45 EST # From: lti2!reg@lti.uucp (Rick Genter x18) # Subject: Ehman 19" displays # # I recently purchased one of those incredibly cheap Ehman 19" B&W displays # for my Mac SE. I should say incredibly *inexpensive* because the display # is **not** "cheap". # # I love it. The quality is the same as the monitor on my Sun, as far as I # am concerned, except that I believe it might be slightly higher resolution. # I was a bit concerned with speed; I'm running a standard SE (not an SE/30, # and no accelerator installed), but it's acceptable. I should note that I # have 4 MB RAM, so holding the larger bitmap is no problem. # # The installation instructions left a lot to be desired. Fortunately I had # done work on my SE in the past (1 MB->2.5 MB, then 2.5MB->4 MB) and pretty # much knew what had to be done. A word of caution: if you have an internal # hard drive, there is *barely* enough room for the video cable (which goes # to the punch out area on the back of the SE) to snake through everything. # It took me nearly an hour to install the board in the "slot", mainly because # the video cable kept unhooking itself from the controller after I had # reinstalled the motherboard. # # Nonetheless, once I got everything back together with the cable attached, it # was a matter of turning on the Mac, putting Ehman's '19" Init' in my system # folder, and rebooting. Voila! # # Another note: I am running System 6.0.2 and do *not* have the Monitors cdev. # Fortunately, the Ehman Init (I presume) sets up the screens such that the # 19" is the menu-bar monitor, and the SE monitor is presumed to be centered and # to the left of the big monitor. This is just right if the SE and the Ehman # are on the same surface and you place the Ehman immediately to the right of # the SE. I have my SE sitting on an external hard drive, so the screens don't # line up exactly. Someday I'll glom on to the Monitors cdev and fix this. # # Overall, I am a happy camper. I bought the monitor because of the ever- # increasing amount of work I've been doing with Think C; having a source window # that extends for 70 or 80 lines in Monaco-9 is *wonderful*, and being able # to have data windows sprinkled liberally across the screen without obliterating # the source debugger or application window is great. I also do a fair amount # of writing in Microsoft Word; with 1" top and bottom margins, a full-length # window is *more* than a page, and Print Preview is actually legible. # # Count me as a satisfied customer; if you're doing serious program development or # writing, the Ehman 19" monitor is a must-have. # # - reg # -- # # # -------------------------- # Stuart Ericson AT&T Bell Laboratories # USEnet: att!ihlpa!stuart IH 1C215 # ARPA: stuart@ihlpa.att.com 2000 N. Naperville Road # Voice: (708) 979-4491 Naperville, Il 60566-7033 # From: Fabian@cup.portal.com # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommen # Lines: 13 # Date: Tue, 17 Jul 90 21:47:52 PDT # X-Origin: The Portal System (TM) # X-Possible-Reply-Path: Fabian@cup.portal.com # X-Possible-Reply-Path: sun!portal!cup.portal.com!Fabian # # John, # # Please also consider SuperMac's 21" Platinum Two Page and 19" Platinum # Displays. # # For B&W support, there's Monochrome Card. For accelerated 8-bit greyscale, # there Spectrum/8 PDQ. # # Fabian Ramirez # SuperMac Technology # # fabian@cup.portal.com # sun!cup.portal.com!fabian # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 90 04:23:52 pdt # From: well!oster@apple.com (David Phillip Oster) # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA # # I got a Ehman 2pager for $745.00 at the April MacWorld expo. It is great. # The price includes the interface card and the necessary cables. I just plugged # it in and it worked. The pixels are all sharp. There is a very slight amount # of pincushion distortion on the left edge, and I believe Ehman tech support # will walk you through opening it up and adjusting it out. Both the power # switch and the brightness control are on the back, which makes them hard to # reach. I am a happy customer, though. It seems like about 75dpi instead of # 72dpi, but that is certainly close enough. # # Remember that in a two display system, the menu bar should probably be # on the right display, so that the left edge, which is the most used part # pf the screen, will be in the center of your system. # -- # -- David Phillip Oster - Note new address. Old one has gone Bye Bye. # -- oster@well.sf.ca.us = {backbone}!well!oster # From: kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware # Subject: SuperMac 19" Grayscale # Date: 14 Jul 90 20:04:43 GMT # Reply-To: kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) # Distribution: usa # Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA # # "From: mmwst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Michael M Wagner) # " # "Does anyone have an opinion about the following large # "screen mono or greyscale monitors # " # "RasterOps Clearvue 19" # "SuperMac 19 or 21" # "Apple 2 page display # "Sigma silverview # " # "Mirror # "Ehman # "Nutmeg # # I use the SuperMac 19" grayscale at home and at work and there is another # one at work. The display is wonderful. Everything about the monitor seems # more classy than any of the other two-page displays around here (Megascreen, # Radius, E-Machines, and Ehman). # # I was the first one to buy one (of these three) it it was because it # was the first two-page monitor I could get my hands on for the SE/30. # So my unit is over a year old. # # It had a strange habit of spewing out a pattern of pixels in a horizontal # band every now and then. I could get rid of it by forcing a refresh of the # screen, so I didn't report it because I didn't want to give it up. # # I started having hard disk problems serious enough to require service, and # while the Mac was in the shop, the video card died. SuperMac replaced it, # though they did send the wrong kind at first. After that I never saw the # pattern of random pixels again. # # I had also started seeing some other problems with the display. There were # intermittent flickers of horizontal white lines (maybe like dashed lines) # and the whole display would jiggle (can't think of a better word) at this # time. It would last maybe 10 to 15 seconds, then quit. One night the # whole display blacked out for a couple seconds then came right back. After # that the other problem wasn't as apparent. This happened on the day the # warranty expired so I called SuperMac and they agreed to look at it under # warranty. The monitor is still in the shop (I think my dealer didn't # follow the procedures for sending it back and it may not really have been # there that long or it may have been in transit a couple times.) # # One of my tests was to take the monitor to work and try it out on an identical # system. This was at SuperMac's suggestion. The first day it performed # flawlessly. I assumed by now that my power was dirty and called around to # find a power line conditioner. Just before going out to buy it, the monitor # started doing its jiggling thing again, so I took it to the dealer to send # back to SuperMac instead. # # The two SuperMacs at work are perfect as far as I can tell. My monitor is # probably a very early unit (as is my hard disk with the stiction problem) # so I would be afraid to buy SuperMac again. However, unless you need the # grayscale, there are MUCH cheaper alternatives. # # We have some of the Ehmans around here and we are highly pleased with them. # As far as I know, it is the only monitor we're buying anymore. The delivery # isn't very swift (plan on months of waiting), but the display is very # sharp. $899 is a terrific price compared to $2500 for the same screen # real estate. # # The SuperMac has an antiglare coating that makes it the easiest display # in the building to look at all day long, but you can always add antiglare # to anything else. # # Lots of luck on your search for the perfect monitor. I sure wish I could # have color sometime, but the text display is so fuzzy compared to monochrome # displays that it would be irritating trying to read it all day long. # # Shirley Kehr # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 90 15:22:11 EDT # From: jjwcmp@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Jeff Wasilko) # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: none to speak of # Cc: # # # If you can pick up the Apple monitor @ educational prices, it would be # worth it. I just ordered two (with cards) for about $1200 each. # # Jeff # -- # | RIT VAX/VMS Systems: | Jeff Wasilko | RIT Ultrix Systems: | # |BITNET: jjw7384@ritvax+----------------------+INET:jjw7384@ultb.isc.rit.edu| # |INTERNET: jjw7384@isc.rit.edu |___UUCP:jjw7384@ultb.UUCP____| # |'claimer: I speak only for myself. Opinions expressed are NOT those of RIT.| -- John Hardin, MCC CAD Program | ARPA: hardin@mcc.com | Phone: [512] 338-3535 Box 200195, Austin, TX 78720 | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!hardin