Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucbvax!agate!shelby!portia.stanford.edu!declan From: declan@portia.Stanford.EDU (Declan McCullagh) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: BusinessLand (reasonable) Message-ID: <1990Jul16.225629.4694@portia.Stanford.EDU> Date: 16 Jul 90 22:56:29 GMT Sender: declan@portia.Stanford.EDU (Declan McCullagh) Organization: AIR, Stanford University Lines: 82 >In article <129@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) >writes... > >>The only thing coming close to the NeXT in functionality is the >>the MacIIfx, which, with 4MB Ram and 160MB HD costs $7250 at maximum >>academic discount---and that DOESN'T INCLUDE THE KEYBOARD, MONITOR >>OR VIDEO CARD. Add on at least another $1500 for something >>of comparable quality. (Not to mention you got no software with that, >>except Hypercard.) Robert (gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu) writes in reply... >I'm not sure what you mean by "functionality", but the closest thing in... I think Barry means that the Macintosh is a bit overpriced, an opinion that a good number of people would probably agree with. Functionality is a term that I remember applied to the Macintosh back when Apple zealots decried MS-DOS computer's "lack of functionality." Now it seems that similar arguments may apply against the Macintosh line... If you've ever used a Macintosh, you should know that functionality is in the eye of the beholder, and is very much an intangible concept. It perhaps refers to the "look and feel" of the computer, how responsive it is, how intuitive the interface is, how comfortable you feel using it, what software is included with it, and above all - what you can DO with it. On a hardware level, it may refer to the inherent features of a system, what hardware options it comes standard with, and how these features can enhance the computer. Using that rather broad definition, compare the IIci to the NeXT. >The IIci has a 25Mhz 68030, just like the Next. The IIfx is 40 MHz, which >is somewhat faster, no? Plus, the Mac at 25Mhz is probably somewhat faster >than the Next, since it's not burdened with Mach and DPS. In this case, as always, you must define what you mean by "faster." If you're talking in pure MIPS, you're not taking into account all the details of the computer's architecture. Or do you mean faster in user-interface response time and perceived speed? It's my understanding that the IIci's performance using the built-in video port drops considerably - to an effective speed of perhaps 20 MHz. Then consider the difference in the two architectures, Mach/Unix vs. Mac/OS, and finally remember the difference in throughput, especially the speed of the NextBus (and the DMA channels) vs. that of the Macintosh NuBus. Finally, consider included software and hardware... >Then again, you get: no DSP chip, no 19 inch screen (although I do think the >IIci has built in video), no development tools, and not much free software >(although I suspect HyperCard would be of more use to the average user than >Lisp, C or Mathematica, for example). You're right, you don't get a nice sized screen or a DSP on a competively priced Mac system... How much are optical disks for the Macintosh? About twice as much as they are for the NeXT. How much are DSP cards? About $2,000 to $3,000 dollars. How about an Ethernet card and an extra printer port? Another few hundred. HyperCard might be more useful than Lisp or C *to the average user*, but Mathematica is a very useful package if you have the manual (and a related book, _Programming_in_Mathematica_). Also, I'd imagine that the "average user" would get a great deal of use out of WriteNow, the Digital Librarian, Webster's, and Quotations... Finally, how much do you think a 68040 based Macintosh will be? With a 4 MB/80 MB IIfx system selling for $9,800 list, I'll guess that it will be well over $10,000 list. Of course, this is bordering on a religious war, and everyone has their own personal views on the subject... >Robert -Declan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Olympic Technologies / Registered NeXT Developers \ declan@portia.stanford.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------