Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: mls@sfsup.att.com (Mike Siemon) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: homosexuality Message-ID: Date: 18 Jul 90 07:28:18 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 57 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I can't let this pass without comment; I'll be brief: (Tom Albrecht) writes: > Homosexual groups are also using negative tactics to turn the opinion > of young people in our society. They are demanding the right to > present their case in our public school under the guise of wanting to > "help youngsters with their latent homosexual feeling." This is Tom's charge is nonsense. It a conflation of two highly biased and competely unfounded stereotypes used constantly against us -- that we "recruit" and that (or so the conservatives seem to think) hordes of American youth would become gay overnight if there were any trace of social acceptance. For the record, sexual orientation is set quite young, and will not be affected by anything taught in schools. And the teaching we advocate just might keep those who *are* homosexual from despair, self-hatred induced by the violent negativity around them, and suicide. The moderator commented > The PCUSA does not > permit ordination of homosexuals. Because of the nature of Reformed > polity, this restriction is somewhat more severe than it would be in > other denominations. All leaders of local churches are ordained as > elders or deacons. Over time, most active members end up being > ordained. Thus prohibition of ordination effectively bars homosexuals > from normal participation in the church. I find that horrifying. You are saying that gay men and lesbian women can have no full part in your church unless they deny themselves or (what you *will* have, since you insist on it) become hypocrites? Do these so easily excluded Christians have any voice at all? Do you also debar moneylenders from participating in your church? -- Michael L. Siemon We must know the truth, and we must m.siemon@ATT.COM love the truth we know, and we must ...!att!sfsup!mls act according to the measure of our love. standard disclaimer -- Thomas Merton [There are in fact taskforces for gay and lesbian concerns at several levels in the PC(USA). So gays have some voice. However they are certainly in a precarious position, since to a large extent these voices are present only because people wink at our official policy. It's not a good situation, whichever position you advocate. Depending upon your view, you would be concerned about either fairly widespread violation of the policies against ordination of homosexuals, or about the fact that whatever taskforces there may be, homosexuals are still largely being forced to stay "in the closet". I wish I could honestly say that this issue was going to be resolved soon, but I don't think so. As an indication of our somewhat ambivalent views, a year or so ago, our Presbytery passed and then retracted at the next meeting a statement saying that we would not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation in hiring non-ordained staff (in practice, clerical positions). --clh]