Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: stq@cbnewsi.att.com (Scott T Questad) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Natural Man (was RE: homosexuality) Message-ID: Date: 18 Jul 90 08:28:13 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 75 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , jeff@slovax.wa.com (jeff) writes: >> >> I've read a lot of responses talking about the 'opinions' of Paul. >> Since when do we get to pick and choose what's inspired word of >> God and what's merely opinion? Appearantly, we can choose when it clh responds: > [I'm tempted to call the comments about picking and choosing opinions > a "cheap shot". It's cheap because it suggests that people are making > their choices based on ulterior motives, which is a judgement that you > aren't in a position to make. There are a number of Christians that > believe Paul's judgements were guided by his understanding of the > society, and might be different in a different society. Remember that Pauls writings were predominantly guided by the Holy Spirit who, as a member of the Trinity does not change. "Times" change, people change, but that is in NO WAY support for an opinion that Paul's writings are out of date - if God condemned a certain behavior in the OT, be sure that he's not thrilled with that behavior today. > The point is that you can > attribute unworthy motives to any position. It never settles > anything. Let's instead adopt a charitable interpretation of what our > Christian brothers and sisters are doing, and simply say that we think > they have made a mistake. --clh] Living charitably with Christian brothers and sisters is paramount. However, part of being a Christain brother or sister is to "speak the truth in love." If a Christian sincerely, [not hastily], prayerfully believe a bro/sis to be in sin, I believe that it is a responsibility of the Christian to tell that person. Scott Q [Indeed. As I said, I have no objection (as moderator -- this doesn't mean I agree with it) to your concluding that homosexual actions are sinful, or to telling people who do it that you believe they are doing something wrong. My problem is with dismissing arguments with comments of the form "you just believe that because you want to be able to continue sinning". First, there are people who believe that homosexuality is acceptable but are not themselves homosexuals. Second, you have no way of knowing what their motivations actually are. There can be unworthy motivations for anything. As I said, people may just as well refuse to listen to arguments for accepting homosexuals because they are homophobes and don't want their prejudice challenged. Third, even if there were complete correlation between those who accepted arguments for homosexuality and those who practice homosexual behavior, you still couldn't infer that their arguments were formed ad hoc to justify their actions. It could just as well be that their actions follow from their understanding of Scripture. Since I believe in Original Sin, I accept that people may often come up with arguments to justify themselves. But in a group like this, it is not conducive to useful discussion to hypothesize about others' motivations. In one on one counselling, things may be very different. There you may indeed want people to help explore their motivations. But here, I suggest that you should concentrate on what people are saying, not on their motivates for doing so. Note that I am not saying you need to consider homosexual behavior acceptable, or that you need to refrain from criticizing it. All I am asking you to do is to listen to the arguments for it, and to oppose them with arguments of your own, and not with ad hominem attack. --clh]