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From: matloff@winnie.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Matloff)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract,comp.edu
Subject: Re: Qualified? or Dreaming?
Message-ID: <37743@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 90 21:51:02 GMT
References: <1990Jul8.063302.4076@xavax.com> <2616@igloo.scum.com> <1990Jul11.233006.17884@nmt.edu> <1990Jul23.060010.20406@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> <37714@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <1990Jul24.140502.17990@cec1.wustl.edu>
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Reply-To: matloff@heather.ucdavis.edu (Norm Matloff)
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In article <1990Jul24.140502.17990@cec1.wustl.edu> conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes:
>In article <37714@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> matloff@heather.ucdavis.edu (Norm Matloff) writes:
>>In article <1990Jul23.060010.20406@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> steve@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Steve Mitchell) writes:

%>%derive the algorithm.  _VERY_FEW_ programming jobs in industry involve
%>%writing compilers or operating systems: most (at least in my
%>%experience) involve using computers to solve various real-world
%>%problems.  It would be much more useful if CS departments turned out
%>%grads with general problem solving and programming skills, rather than
%>%aiming them at jobs developing system software at computer companies.

>>This is really shortsighted.  Very few people *write* an OS, but almost
>>everyone *uses* OSs.  A good knowledge of how an OS works is essential
>>to making good use of one.

^Almost everyone uses compilers, networks, text editors, word
^processors, database systems, windowing systems, electronic mail, etc., etc.
^The list grows longer every year.  Using the argument above we should
^have a required course on every piece of technology that we use.

Nope.  Those are different.  When I said that people "use" OSs above,
I meant that their programs make calls to OS services (either directly, 
or via the compiler inserting code to do so).  That is why people need to 
know what an OS does  --  so that they can make good use of those services.

By contrast, rather few people write programs to call on the "services"
of a word processor. :-)

>should not require our CS curricula to read like an inventory of the
>currently important technological artifacts. 

An OS is not a "technological artifact."  As I said, almost every
program (except for "embedded applications") makes OS calls.  I didn't
say that the students should become proficient at a particular OS, by
the way.  Just general principles, though references should be made to
specific systems so as to make the concepts concrete.

And those general OS principles *are* general  --  they do apply to
many of those applications you mention.

>Instead of core a course on "operating
>systems" why not a course on "concurrent programming".  

There's a lot more to OS than concurrency.

BTW, why have a CS major at all?  I'm not being snide here.  If you
really feel that universities should not be "technology schools"
(which I agree), why not go all the way, and not have a CS major at
all?  Let the companies themselves provide training courses.

   Norm