Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!math.lsa.umich.edu!math.lsa.umich.edu!hyc From: hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: TT (Who has one?) Keywords: long Message-ID: <1990Jul20.233102.24577@math.lsa.umich.edu> Date: 20 Jul 90 23:31:02 GMT References: <1990Jul19.160526.2215@arcsun.arc.ab.ca> <6764@vax1.acs.udel.EDU> <1990Jul20.141733.5567@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Sender: usenet@math.lsa.umich.edu Organization: University of Michigan Math Dept., Ann Arbor Lines: 116 In article <1990Jul20.141733.5567@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: >I wish to thank the person who posted that lengthy article concerning the >TT. It is the most informative post I've seen so far on the subject. I'll second the thanks... >A few comments: > >1. It was interesting to note the rather healthy dose of cynicism Darek > gives whenever the name of Atari is in the same sentence. I guess > we can't blame him. And this guy is one of the biggest supporters > of the ST line as far as I can ascertain! Hehe, I love it... Honesty is the best policy, eh? I thought it was pretty good... >2. The chart posted by Atari NZ regarding the TT specs (reporduced below) > is a bit irritating. It compares a 32mhz (I'll consider it 16mhz until > someone SEES/USES a 32mhz model) TT against 16mhz models made by > competitors. This is absolute bullsh*t. The Amiga 3000 is offered > in a 25mhz version (Which you can buy TODAY at a lower price than > those quoted for the TT) and the MacII family has a 25mhz and > *40mhz* versions which you can go right out an purchase now. While > the Macs may be more pricey, they are available NOW and have been > for quite some time. As far as the A3000 goes, I think the quoted > prices for the TT are higher when you consider that you must go > out and buy an EXPENSIVE multisync monitor to handle ALL of its > various display modes. Multisync monitors aren't all that expensive, really. $380-$500 for a decent one in Computer Shopper. I was looking thru the Apple Educational Discount price list that was posted in misc.forsale.xxx. Even at this discount, a comparable 16MHz Mac IIcx system would cost $5140.50. (2 meg RAM, 40 MB HD, 8 bit video card, Apple RGB monitor.) For the 25MHz Mac IIci, add $800 or so to the price. At least as far as Apple is concerned, it's really tough to put together a decent comparison chart, because "comparable price" yields a useless Mac system, and "comparable features" yields a sky-high price. I don't have any pricing info on the Amiga 3000 line, but I'll accept your statement. Someone else already mentioned the 25MHz A3000 here anyway... (I really don't want to start an Amiga/Atari war here. Especially since I have so much fun bashing Macs, I don't want to get distracted... }-) >3. The A3000 comes with a 68882 math coprocessor running at 25mhz, > the TT comes with the slower 68881. I wonder what Atari will > charge for the upgrade if you want/need it? I don't think it'll matter. The 68882 is pin-compatible with the 68881, and I've seen a couple places advertising the 68882s for up to $100 *less* than their 68881 prices. (Don't ask me, it wasn't a typo. I called 'em up to verify. Mebbe the 881s aren't being produced in quantity, so they're getting scarcer.) >4. As Darek noted, TOS v.X.X has and seems doomed to be forever buggy. > The other machines listed on the table seem to have better support > for OS updates. Are you willing to buy computer X slightly cheaper > now only to be hung out to dry when it comes time for user support? I am. If it's running Unix, (which seems to be the only sensible thing to do with an '030 at your disposal... }-) software support is a non-issue. Usenet has always been better software support than any program I've ever seen from any vendor. >5. Also, as Darek noted, if/when Dave Small produces a 030 upgrade for > the ST, you could buy a NEW Mega 2 system and a $1500 030 upgrade > and still save well over $1000 in the cost of the TT. Go figger... Yeah, this one's an interesting point. Still thinking about it. I guess we wait till the upgrade becomes available. For folks like me who just want more compute speed, this would be a good way to go. But you won't get the new video modes or the 12 bit palette this way. How much does a JRI color board cost? I dunno, I think there are enough new things that this is a sizeable step up from a *Mega or ST*. It's not as far a leap above an STe, though... >Anyway, here is the table again for those who missed it... > Comparison of standard features > Amiga 3000 Mac IIcx Atari TT030 >CPU 68030 68030 68030 >FPU Yes Yes Yes >Clock speed 16 Mhz - 32 Mhz >RAM 2 to 17 1 to 32 2 to 26 >Burst Mode Yes No Yes >ROM 512K 256K 512K >Graphics > Max resolution 1280 x 480 Optional 1280 x 960 > Interlaced Non-interlaced > Max colours 32 Colours 256 Colours > from 4096 from 4096 > Max video RAM 1 Mb 8 Mb >Sound Stereo Stereo Stereo >Expansion Proprietary NuBus VME >Hard disk DMA Non-DMA DMA >Floppy disk Proprietary Proprietary PC compatible >Network No Yes Yes, DMA >Serial 1 x RS232 2 x RS232 4 x RS232 >Parallel Yes No Yes >MIDI No No Yes >ROM Cartridge No No Yes Hey, one line they forgot: KEYBOARD yes OPTIONAL!! Yes Mouse is optional??!! $165 for a stupid *keyboard* ?? And these are the Educational Discount prices? Geeze... Makes you wonder at the folks running "Higher Education" ... -- -- Howard Chu @ University of Michigan one million data bits stored on a chip, one million bits per chip if one of those data bits happens to flip, one million data bits stored on the chip...