Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!well!dansmith
From: dansmith@well.sf.ca.us (Daniel Smith)
Newsgroups: news.software.b
Subject: Re: Time for 8 bit news, isn't it?????.
Message-ID: <19227@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 25 Jul 90 01:16:43 GMT
References: <1990Jul21.083046.13075@squirrel.mh.nl> <1990Jul21.174535.8281@lokkur.dexter.mi.us> <1864@tkou02.enet.dec.com>
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
Lines: 62


[ongoing discussion about 8 bit news...]

	I agree that 8 bit news would be a Good Thing.  But some of the
same people that would be solving that problem are attempting (or at
least, should be attempting :-) to speed along these two:

	1) 8 bit email

	2) worldwide agreement on email addressing... 

	I don't think 8 bit email is that hard, but then again, I haven't
really looked at the code...I just think that since uucp and other
low-level transport mechanisms can handle it, that it shouldn't be
too hard to adapt MTAs and readers for it.  I could be way off base on this :-)

	Problems for both 8 bit email and news is:  how to protect
your screen (use a pager like "less", which automatically displays
control-whatever as 2 chars)?  How do you decide which escape sequences
you want to affect your screen and which you want to filter out?
How do you know which language (character set) to display in?  Which
convention do you use to handle EOL?  Will people agree on generic ways
of including bold text, font changes, etc?  Sure, there are some standards
in these areas...but...  I guess the problem really breaks down into
three: how to transport (MTAs and underlying news software), how to
display (allowing for different terminals, local conventions, etc) and
how to save the message (save everything in binary mode?, save it
the way you saw it?, etc.)

	A big problem I see (2) is all the *%&^ ways of getting a message
from point A to point B.  Not in the routing sense, but in type of
addressing used sense.  Sure it's getting better, but not quickly enough.
One has to remember foo@bar.com vs this!that!other vs something::other
For instance, in my mail today I have:

From: Someone in England <uunet!stl.stc.co.uk!That.Person>
X-Vms-Mail-To: INET%"daniel%bermuda%island@mcsun.uucp"

	Now, I'm glad this made it to me (I've changed the name,
but see what I mean?  lots of mailers can choke on "That.Person"...it's
not a domain!)  As for the INET line...yea, I think I understand it,
but god what a kludge just to get a letter from one place to another!

	My wish for today is to have the world convert to user@site.domain
once and for all...problem is (getting back to the real world!) all the
different twists on this that you see (don't they do some of the domain
part in reverse in England?  sigh :-)  The real test of this will
be "can I explain in 1 minute to someone brand-new to email how to
address to any site?".  When we can do that, without all sorts of
exceptions based on machine type, OS, country, local net, etc., we'll
all benefit (less bounced mail, more understandable).  I realize many
people are currently working on this, and I thank them!

[followup to some more appropriate group, since this is starting to get
off the Subject]

				Daniel
-- 
                         Dan "Bucko" Smith
   dansmith@well.sf.ca.us   daniel@island.uu.net   unicom!daniel@pacbell.com
ph: (415) 332 3278 (h), 258 2136 (w) disclaimer: Island's coffee was laced :-)
My mind likes Cyberstuff, my eyes films, my hands guitar, my feet skiing...