Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: cathy@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Cathy Johnston) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre Message-ID: Date: 24 Jul 90 19:02:08 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Department of Computer Science Lines: 67 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In , jhpb@granjon.garage.att.com (Joe Buehler) writes: [a long explanation and apologia about Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society of St. Pius X] While I would have to do some research to discuss most of the substantive issues which Joe has brought up, there is one point I would like to clarify. > [...] >This has sort of been the tone of Archbishop Lefebvre's relations with >the Vatican ever since. They have refused to try him, either >doctrinally or under canon law. The various studies I have seen >basically convince me that what we have here is a classic case of an >abuse of power. The Vatican refuses to grant him due process, or even a >reason, so he considers the legal penalties enacted against him void, up >to and including the excommunication of summer 1988. > [...] >... The recently consecrated bishops ... According to Canon Law, ordaining bishops outside the authority of the Pope is an offense which results in automatic excommunication. No hearing is necessary. The Catholic Church did not excommunicate Archbishop Lefebvre; he excommunicated himself. There is no need for a trial. Because of the way the Church is structured, consecrating bishops without the consent of Rome is, pretty much by definition, starting your own church. Even if Lefebvre is 100% right, he's still a not a Roman Catholic. Besides -- isn't due process one of those evil Modernist heresies from 18th-Century Liberalism? >- The traditional Mass has been effectively outlawed through an abuse of >power. Church law is that no priest can be penalized for using the old >Mass. The changes in the New Mass parallel those of the Reformation, >and are destroying the faith of the Catholic people. In Chicago, the Archdiocese has organized Tridentine (Pre-Vatican II) Masses on the north, west and south sides of the diocese. (For those unfamiliar with the geography of Chicago, the "east" side of town is under water. :-) ) At least one of these has been discontinued for lack of interest. My impression of the significance of Lefebvre to the Church is that the Society of St. Pius X is just another fringe group that has departed into schism. We'd really prefer that they would stop calling themselves Roman Catholic, since it's confusing to outsiders, but it's not really worth making an issue out of what they call themselves. (After all, we've gone a few rounds of this debate right here in s.r.c as far as who has the "right" to call themselves Christians -- and all we've ever really settled is that it's a pointless discussion.) I'd be interested to see how many people are involved in this movement, especially as compared to the size of the Church. If I can find some material on the issue, perhaps I'll post more at some later date. cathy :-) Cathy Johnston cathy@gargoyle.uchicago.edu cathy@gargoyle.uchicago.bitnet "The Church and the World are jammed to the rafters these days with people willing to get involved, get their hands dirty, take risks, make sacrifices, hurl themselves at spears, lead the advance, inspire, illuminate, encourage, organize and manage great affairs. I find most such folks insufferable, even if they are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Where are the people willing to sit on the sidelines and find fault?" -- Michael O. Garvey