Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: do515127@longs.lance.colostate.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Benjamin Britten's pagan? carol Message-ID: Date: 26 Jul 90 06:22:13 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Lines: 63 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes: >I made the original post relating a few lines from Benjamin Britten's >carol "Deo Gratias" from "The Ceremony of Carols" I understand the >carols here for the most part are taken from ancient English and Latin >The carol says that if Adam had not taken the apple "Then had not >Our Lady a been Hevene queen." It's not celebrating Jesus--it's >celebrating the exaltation of Mary. > >Do *you* sing "Deo Gratias" because sin came to exalt Mary? >Are there similar sources in Catholic thought which echo this sentiment. > Cardinal St. Alphonse di Liguori, in his book "The Glories of Mary", which as the editor says, "Everything that our saint has written is, as it were a Summary of a Catholic tradition on the subject that it treats: it is not an individual author; it is, so to speak, the church herself that speaks to us by the voice of her prophets, her apostles, her pontiffs, her saints, her fathers, her doctors of all nations and all ages." And he writes, "And she is truly made a mediatress of peace between sinners and God" "Sinners receive pardon by . . . Mary alone" (pg 82,83) and "He falls is lost who has not recourse to Mary" (pg 94) Versus, "I [Jesus] am the way the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." (John 14:6) As for the Queen of Heaven, "Many things . . . are asked from God, and are not granted; they are asked from Mary, and are obtained" for "She . . . is even Queen of Hell, and Sovereign Mistress of the Devils." (pgs 137, 141, 143) Versus, "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Hebrews 4:16) "All power is given to Thee in Heaven and on earth" so that "at the command of Mary all obey, even God . . . and thus . . . God has placed the whole Church . . .under the dominion of Mary" (pgs 180, 181) Whereas, "And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Matt 28:18) "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in Heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth" (Phil 2:10) The contrast is frightening. -- DAvid Olson | "I have come that they might have life, and have it to INET: do515127@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu | the full." -- Jesus, John 10:10b UUCP: boulder!ccncsu!longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu!do515127 [I'd like to make a request of Catholic respondents. There is a question that has come up in the past, and I already know pretty much what the response is going to be. However I'd like to add another request. The charge that is implicit in this posting is that Liguori is replacing Christ as our sole redeemer with Mary. The usual response is to explain that Mary is not really replacing Christ: Christ simply acts through her. In addition to this explanation (which should certainly be made in more detail by a Catholic -- I don't claim to be able to do justice to the position), I'd like to know whether our Catholic readers believe that this approach is representative of the mainstream of Catholic views today. It's one thing to show that it can be interpreted so that it does not technically violate the bounds of Christian doctrine, but that does not necessarily mean it's a wise way to go. --clh]