Xref: utzoo misc.education:734 comp.org.ieee:365 sci.edu:1018 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!ipso!stcns3!stca77!nick From: nick@stca77.stc.oz (Nick Lochrin) Newsgroups: misc.education,comp.org.ieee,sci.edu Subject: Re: Engineering Education Keywords: engineering,education,Waterloo Message-ID: <1008@stca77.stc.oz> Date: 2 Aug 90 01:05:54 GMT References: <3374@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca> <90Jul29.230424edt.8339@ephemeral.ai.toronto.edu> Organization: Alcatel-STC, Alexandria, AUSTRALIA Lines: 76 Disclaimer: The views expressed herein are those of the author only In article <90Jul29.232640edt.8337@ephemeral.ai.toronto.edu> tjhorton@ai.toronto.edu ("Timothy J. Horton") writes: >[speculating on problems/fixes for engineering education] > mkg@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca (Mike Grasley) writes: [ stuff deleted ] >Well, the image has a number of things perfectly right. Compare doctors and >lawyers with engineers. >>Parents encourage their children to be lawyers, doctors, dentists and >>accountants. Engineering isn't regarded in the same manner." > [ stuff deleted ] >It is usually the case that the more you cost and less you give for it, the >more people love and respect and value you. I've learned this from work, >my own and others (i.e. the more somebody pays you, the more they love you >and listen to you and respect what you say). My sister is a negotiator for >our the Ontario government, and it is sad to hear the obvious contrasts >between the ways the engineers negotiate and the way the lawyers and doctors >do it. The engineers just don't have the wherewithall. > [ stuff deleted ] >>So the other alternative is increased enrollment in engineering programs >>at universities. This is a two step process. First we must create a >>positive public image. > >Unless you expect to have other than a superficial effect, you are going >to have to reshape the underlying causes for the image. People may be >open to superficial manipulation, but is there ever going to be enough >money for the ad campaigns to fool us all for very long? > [ stuff deleted ] >doing better than their parents, etc. These new kids want to assure their >place in the social order, not follow pathes of excitement and intellectual >exploration. [ stuff deleted ] Following the discussions on the engineering profession, I couldn't help but notice the comparisions between engineers and "lawyers and doctors" (which have been grouped together in the discussions). To shed a little light on what the Australian perception of these professions is, a recent survey (I can't remember the details but I'll try and find out if anyone is interested) found that the public perception was that lawyers were ranked just before car salesman in (descending) order of the amount of trust and respect with which they were generally regarded. This made the lawyers embark on a publicity campaign to try and rectify this perception; their money probably *won't* run out !! :-) It is also a sad fact that there is a shortage of qualified engineers, but I think the profession is not perceived in the same light as that of the lawyers in this country. Does anyone know of other surveys ? I believe that the survey interviewed people who were already in the workforce, as a large percentage of students leaving high school that get high marks seem to study law and medicine. I wonder how many think that "I'll do medicine/law because I got the marks" ? As an example of the "place in the social order" attitude, I happen to have heard someone recently who after studying medicine for 6 years and started working in a hospital, has now decided that it is not for them. She thought that she might go back to uni and study law..... spare the engineering profession from this ! -- Nick Lochrin nick@stca77.stc.oz Alcatel STC Australia ...!uunet!stca77.stc.oz!nick 252-280 Botany Road, nick%stca77.stc.oz@uunet.UU.NET ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 "Are you the police ?.. No ma'am, we're musicians."