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From: waltje@minixug.hobby.nl (Fred van Kempen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: (none)
Message-ID: <26397@nigel.udel.EDU>
Date: 2 Aug 90 00:22:45 GMT
Sender: mmdf@ee.udel.EDU
Lines: 121

Subject: Re: Your articles sold for cash.  [ _long_ : DO read !! ]
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
References: <5414@castle.ed.ac.uk>

CC: ast@cs.vu.nl, josj@phall.mug.hobby.nl

From article <5414@castle.ed.ac.uk>, by tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk (A J Cunningham):
> 
> This is part of an ad that appears in Program Now, a UK based
> programming magazine:
> 
> MINIX
> 
> Run a Unix Type System
> For only $87.75
> 
> A unix type multi-tasking, multi-user system that will run on IBM clones
> or Atari ST.
> 
> Including printouts and patches from USENET.
> 
> 
> The Minix Centre 
> Forncett-End Nr Norwich Norfolk.
> 

All:

The MINIX Centre UK is an organization similar to NLMUG; since they offer
services to MINIX customers in their country.  However, since they do not
receive any external support or funding, they are forced to get the money
by selling some related products for a small profit.  For that little
amount of extra money, customers receive what they deserve: a decent service
regarding system updates, and a place to go to in case of questions and/or
problems.  In my opinion, this is a very fair deal for most people.

Tony:

As the founder of the MINIX User Group Holland (NLMUG), and co-founder
of a number of other MUGs in the world, and as the primary founder of
the MUGNET MINIX Network, which are all recognized non-profit organizations,
I am "shocked" by this message.

> 	Several things disturb me about this. Firstly does this company
> have permission from Prentice Hall for what they are doing?

1.  Yes, ANYONE may sell MINIX for profit AT ANY PRICE.
    If you buy a copy of the Acme Word Processor program for $100,-,
    you may sell it to anyone for any price.  If the buyer pays you
    more than what YOU payed for it, then he is real dumb, and you
    just made a profit.  If the guy pays less, then you'll be losing
    money.  Since I am the official MINIX distributor for the Netherlands
    (personally, not the NLMUG !), I can place ads like the one above as
    well.
    However, Prentice-Hall sometimes appoints certain companies or orga-
    nizations as "official" Prentice-Hall dealers for MINIX related stuff,
    since MINIX is hard to obtain in some countries.  TMC is one of them
    in the UK, and I (personally, not NLMUG) is one of them in the
    Netherlands.  This, of course, offers some nice quantity discounts.
    However, one must also "promise" to promote the MINIX product at best.

> Secondly they are selling the contents of this newsgroup for profit. The

2.  My (official !!) Prentice-Hall price book says:

	MINIX 1.3 Disks (AT and XT)   UKP 98.44   US$ 113.15
	MINIX 1.1 ST Disks + Man.     UKP 98.44   US$ 113.15
        ...

    Since all dealers get some amount of discount, "The MINIX Centre" can
    sell MINIX for any price they want to, as long as it is higher than
    what they had to pay for it (I know what their discount rate is, amd
    I can only tell you that is a fair one.)

    It would be silly to say that they do not make a profit of selling
    MINIX packages to people inside the UK, but remember that TMC does
    this as a means to keep the organization going.  I know the guys
    behind TMC (I am sure they will read this, so they probably will
    reply to it...), and they already explained to me (and, no doubt,
    to many others) that they have to get some money to keep the MINIX
    services alive, since they do NOT have members, nor do they get any
    funding from universities and the like.

    As long as people put no (c)opyright on posted material, this can
    be included in any MINIX-package, provided that it is labelled as
    such.  However, the price may not be raised due to the addition of
    the USENET material.

    In other words: they sell MINIX for profit (to keep the organization
                    going), and add interesting USENET stuff to the
                    packages being sold, for the customer's convienience.

    They do not (yet) have access to MUGNET, so they are unable to offer
    these articles in any other way, like a BBS system, for example.
   
> trouble is I don't see any way to stop them.

3.  And why should you?  Who gives you the authority?
    The only people who might stop them are P-H (who do not wish to do
    so), and Andy Tananbaum, who _knows_ what they (and, for that matter,
    I) do with his "baby".

All I am trying to say here is:  please investigate these things very
carefully before accusing people of making profits of another man's
work.

Please feel free to flame me for this bit of critisism.
I just can't stand messages like the one above....

> 	Tony

Fred van Kempen,
MINIX User Group Holland (NLMUG)

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