Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!ucsd!rutgers!att!cbnews!military From: wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: F19 vs. F117 Message-ID: <1990Jul27.015630.22235@cbnews.att.com> Date: 27 Jul 90 01:56:30 GMT Sender: military@cbnews.att.com (William B. Thacker) Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 215 Approved: military@att.att.com From: wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) >From: adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) >Also, can someone explain to me the way the USAF numbers its aircraft? I >can account for most of the numbers 1 to 20, thus: Well, the Air Force can't even explain it! :-) >1: McDonnell FH-1 Phantom >2: McDonnell F2H Banshee >3: McDonnell F3H Demon >4: Confusion :-) North American FJ-4 Fury; Douglas F4D Skyray; McDonnell- >Douglas F4H Phantom II. Not really confusing at all, IFF you want to talk about USAF aircraft. the FJ-4 Fury and F4D Skyray were carrier borne US Navy aircraft. :-) If you care to go back further, there was also the F4F Wildcat of WWII(Grumman) ....and you can go back perhaps a bit further on the 2 and 3 designations into the '20s and '30s. How could we forget the F4U Corsair (I hope that's close) of WWII fame, here to confuse the "4" fighters even more? :-) And there always the A4 Skyhawk..... >5: Northrop F5 Freedom Fighter Reference also to the T38 Talon, trainer version... >6: ? The F6F Hellcat(Grumman), worthy successor to the F4F Wildcat, also of WWII vintage. >7: Chance Vought F7U Cutlass Also F7F Tigercat(Grumman), less than worthy..... :-) More recently, the A7 Corsair II, still on line since the 60's and might get a new lease on life as the A7F. >8: Chance Vought F8U Crusader And the last of the prop driver 'cats, the F8F Bearcat (Grumman). Marvelous airplane....if you ever go to a Warbirds show see if Howard Pardue is flying his F8F.....beautiful! >9: Grumman F9F Panther, Cougar One with a straight wing, one with a swept wing. >10: ? OHHHH, how soon we forget. A10 Thunderbolt II, Republic/Fairchild and whoever else was involved. Our current tank-buster with the GAU8a 30mm cannon that can saw a Soviet MBT into chunks. Fine aircraft that the USAF wants to deep-six in favor of some kluged up version of the F16 (oops, sorry about the politics there Bill). >11: ? F11 Tiger. I don't recall who made it. I think this was the first carrier-borne supersonic fighter. The Blue Angels once flew them. >12: Lockheed F-12; never got past YF-12 stage; became SR-71 Blackbird Well, we could debate about that. The YF12 was really SUPPOSED to be a fighter-interceptor while the SR71 proper was a recon bird from the word go. The fact that they were based upon the same airframe.....well...... :-) >13: ? Maybe the companies were superstitious; maybe someone felt no pilot >would want to fly an F-13. >14: Grumman F-14 Tomcat >15: McDonnell-Douglas F-15 Eagle >16: General Dynamics F-16 Falcon >17: Northrop F-17; competitor to F-16 which failed. Later resurrected as: >18: McDonnell-Douglas F-18 Hornet Hmmmm.....I don't think McD/D would agree with that.... :-) >19: Lockheed F-19, the hypothetical Stealth Fighter. The real one is F-117 >for some reason. Or is there an F-19 which no-one has seen yet? Rumour has it that "117" was the call sign used by a USAF group flying "appropriated" MiG's.....evidently the Stealth jockeys started using it and it stuck. Stranger things have happened. >20: Northrop's private follow-up to the F-5, which no-one would buy. Known as the Tigershark. Prototypes crashed, don't know if there are more than one or two left. >21: ? >22: The hypothetical ATF. Well, there are two. The Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics (I think that's the lineup) is the YF22. The Northrop version is the YF23. They are actually competing for the ATF contract. ======================================================================== P26: ???official name I don't recall, known as the Pea-Shooter. This was an early monoplane fighter. P35: name????, Seversky. Predecessor to P47. P36: Hawk, Curtiss. Not too well known but some were sold to the French prior to WWII and got toasted, mostly on the ground by superior Luftwaffe aircraft early on. P38: Lightning, Lockheed. Maybe also thank you Kelly Johnson?????? Twin boom "boomer" that the Germans called the "fork tailed devil". HEAVILY armed; in the pacific was the aircraft that shot down Adm. Yamamoto's plane. P39: Airacobra, Bell Aircraft. Sold lots to the Soviet Union during WWII. Unique design, never horridly impressive. P40: Warhawk, Kittyhawk, Tomahawk; Curtiss, methinks. Lots of these built in several different flavors. Generally inferior to its opponents but given good pilots and appropriate tactics, the Flying Tigers held their own against Japanese Zeros until better aircraft could be delivered. Methinks the only American fighters to see action over Pearl Harbor (or nearby...) were of this type. P43: Lancer, Republic. I think saw some limited action in the Pacific during early WWII. Pretty well outclassed. P47: Thunderbolt, Republic (formerly Seversky) Known to some as "the jug" due to it's shape. A heavy, powerful bird that excelled in the ground attack role in late WWII. P/F51: Mustang, North American Aviation. What needs to be said about this bird, other than pure excellence? XP58: Chain Lightning, Lockheed (don't know if that name was official) An attempt to improve the P38 that proved the adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" P61: Black Widow, Northrop. P63: Kingcobra, Bell Aircraft. See P39. P/F80: Shooting Star, Lockheed. Thank you Kelly Johnson. More people have probably seen a T33, the two seat trainer based upon the F80 and affectionately known as the T-bird. Many still flying; including one just seen flying at the Dayton Airshow. F82: Twin Mustang, North American. An exception to the rule that says kluging doesn't work. The F82 was two P51's joined at the wing and tail; made a dandy ground support aircraft. F84: Thunderjet/Thunderstreak/Thunderflash, Republic Aviation. First jet to carry a Tactical Nuke, If memory serves correctly. XF85: Goblin, can't recall the builder. Was a parasite designed to be deployed from a B36 Peacemaker on a trapeze assembly. Ugly, but it did fly. Methinks can be seen in the Air Force Museum at Wright Patterson AFB. F86: Sabre, North American. The counter to the MiG15 over Korea; another bit of excellence from North American. F89: Scorpion, don't remember who made this one. XF92: Whoo, boy....can't remember the name of this one but it was sort of the original Convair Delta-wing fighter vehicle. F94: Starfire, Lockheed, I think.... I think this is an overgrowth of the F80/T33..... F100: Super Sabre, North American. Nasty airplane at first but once the bugs were worked out, our first fighter to go supersonic in level flight became a very good aircraft. F101: Voodoo, McDonell/Douglas, I think. This was based, I think, upon the Xf-99(88???)....but don't quote me on that. A very LARGE fighter whose recon version, the RF101 probably made more of a splash - made low level dangerous passes over Cuba during the missile crisis. F102: Delta Dagger? (I get this and the F106 backwards sometimes) and I think Convair made this one. Delta wing. F104: Starfighter, Lockheed. Thank You again, Kelly Johnson. Known as the "missile with the man in it" While never achieving great acceptance with the USAF, foreign countries gobbled them up by the s***loads. I could be wrong, but I think this was produced until the 1980's after having been built since the early 60's. Held several speed and altitude records until the Blackbirds came around and blew everybody away..... F105: Thunderchief, Republic. BIG bird, used more commonly in Vietnam for precision bomb strikes, although I have seen film of big groups of them (15+) dropping iron in a fairly indiscriminate pattern. F106: Delta Dart? Again, I think Convair/General Dynamics. Marvelous upgrade of the F102. Used as a strategic interceptor and could fire nasty missiles with nuke head like the Genie, which could seriously nuke whole GROUPS of enemy bombers. Of course, it probably wouldn't have done the firing aircraft much good either..... :-) F107: I keep thinking that this was a Northrop creation called a Cobra. Never sold to anybody, that I know of. Wierdest looking thing..... F108: Rapier, North American. Never built or sold. Was to be a Mach 3+ escort for the XB70 bomber. Scheduled to have the Hughes AN/ASG18 air-air missile radar that ended up going into the YF12a, and in improved fashion, into the F15 Eagle. F111: Now that's funny...I can't remember the name of this thing to save my life OR who built it. Now known as the FB111 and used as a "fighter/bomber" (ask the Libyans....). There is an EF111 Raven Electronics Jammer plane. Original swing-wing for the US. F117: Name more or less not set. Nighthawk is the leading contender. Stealth fighter. Very secret until recently. ======================================================================= Please keep in mind that I am sitting at work doing this from memory. I really don't have good access form home, and I don't feel like dragging all the reference works in to my rather crowded office. :-) Duane (after this one, my brain hurts.....)