Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Benjamin Britten's pagan? carol Message-ID: Date: 29 Jul 90 19:09:47 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Grebyn Timesharing, Vienna, VA, USA Lines: 68 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu >[I'd like to make a request of Catholic respondents. There is a >question that has come up in the past, and I already know pretty much >what the response is going to be. However I'd like to add another >request. The charge that is implicit in this posting is that Liguori >is replacing Christ as our sole redeemer with Mary. The usual >response is to explain that Mary is not really replacing Christ: >Christ simply acts through her. In addition to this explanation >(which should certainly be made in more detail by a Catholic -- I >don't claim to be able to do justice to the position), I'd like to >know whether our Catholic readers believe that this approach is >representative of the mainstream of Catholic views today. It's one >thing to show that it can be interpreted so that it does not >technically violate the bounds of Christian doctrine, but that does >not necessarily mean it's a wise way to go. --clh] Mary is a *creature*. A creature, a creature, a CREATURE!!! OK???? (This is not directed at you, clh, but everyone in netland.) She is *not* God, nor is she in the least bit comparible with God. She is a creature and servant of God, a humble handmaid, to use her words. However, as a * C R E A T U R E *, she is above all other * C R E A T U R E S *. She is "full of grace." This means that she is really F-U-L-L--O-F--G-R-A-C-E!! Full of grace means free of sin...she is so full of grace to the brim that there is no room even for the slightest sinful tendency. But she is a creature, and she has her own free will. It would be correct to say that "Christ acts through Mary" to the extent that Christ acts through any of his creatures. But she has her own sinless free will, which is not *identicle* with Gods will. Now, I would like everyone to try a little experiment. Please ask God for a cup of sugar, right now as you are reading this. All of you who now have a cup of sugar in your hands, please e-mail me immediately!! Now, go to your next-door-neighbor and ask them for a cup of sugar. I bet that a lot more of you have a cup of sugar now. Does this mean that your next-door-neighbor is somehow more powerful that God Himself? If you would like to conclude that, go right ahead. But the Catholic Church dies not teach that -- about your next-door-neighbor, or about Mary. Mary is a creature. As a creature, she is the most perfect creature created by God. She had the singluar vocation of all time and in all the universe of being the vehicle through which God Himself chose to Incarnate Himself for the redemtion of the world. She is specially favored of God. She is the Mother of our Redeemer. No other creature deserves more "creaturely" reverence than she does. As a creature she is full of wisdom and power -- moreso thatn any other * C R E A T U R E *. If we can ask our next-door-neighbor for a favor and get it, don't you think we can ask Mary for a favor -- and get it? Does this mean that she is somehow more powerful than God? Of course not. It simply means that God sometimes choses to bestow His grace upon us through our fellow creatures! And Mary is the friend of all creatures. chris -- First comes the logo: C H E C K P O I N T T E C H N O L O G I E S / / \\ / / Then, the disclaimer: All expressed opinions are, indeed, opinions. \ / o Now for the witty part: I'm pink, therefore, I'm spam! \/