Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: cms@dragon.uucp Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: re: Benjamin Britten's pagan? carol Message-ID: Date: 29 Jul 90 19:32:57 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Projects Unlimited Lines: 113 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) writes: > I made the original post relating a few lines from Benjamin Britten's > carol "Deo Gratias" from "The Ceremony of Carols" I understand the > carols here for the most part are taken from ancient English and Latin > texts. Part of the carol celebrates the fall of Adam. Some people > have said that some Catholics do believe that we should praise God > for the fall because it lead to the glorification and incarnation of > Christ. (This seems to parallel Mormon thinking that the fall was > a good thing, but I digress.) But this was not the original point > of my question. "Moreover, in Genesis 22 [:18], His promise to Abraham was, In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. Christ is the seed of Abraham according to St. Paul in Galatians 3 [:16], and has given a blessing to all the world through the gospel; for where Christ is not found, there remains the curse which was pronounced on Adam and his descendants, after his sin. The effect of this curse was that they too were guilty of sin, and that death and hell would be their lot. But, contrary to the curse, the gospel brought a blessing to all the world when it proclaimed, for all to hear, that whoever believed on the seed of Abraham should be blessed, i.e., delivered from sin, death, and hell. Thus made righteous, he would live in eternal bliss. This is what Christ Himself said in John 11 [:26], He who believes on me shall never die." Martin Luther Preface to the New Testament The first step in becoming Christian is to admit, "I am a sinner." For all its theological underpinnings, original sin means no more than this. C. S. Lewis (an Anglican), in Perelandra, had this to say after it had been determined that Original Sin did *not* occur on Perelandra (Venus, for what it's worth): "Today for the first time two creatures of the low worlds, two images of Maleldil [Jesus] that breathe and breed like the beasts, step up that step at which your parents fell, and sit in the throne of what they were meant to be. It was never seen before. Because it did not happen in your world [Earth] a greater thing happened, but not this. Because the greater thing happened in Thulcandra, this and not the greater thing happens here." Later in the same work: The King, the Man of this world who did not commit Original Sin, says: "All this, all that happened in your world, Maleldil [Jesus] has put into our mind. We have learned of evil, though not as the Evil One wished us to learn. We have learned better than that, and know it more, for it is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understand waking. There is an ignorance of evil that comes from being young; there is a darker ignorance that comes from doing it, as men by sleeping lose the knowledge of sleep. You are more ignorant of evil in Thulcandra [EArth] now than in the days before your Lord and Lady [Adam and Eve] began to do it. But Maleldil [Jesus] has brought us out of the one ignorance, and we have not entered the other. It was by the Evil One himself that he brought us out of the first. Little did that dark mind know the errand on which he really came to Perelandra!" It's interesting that in this novel the Forbidden Thing, once rejected by the Adam and Eve of this world, subsequently becomes no longer forbidden. Last quotation, from the Song of the Great Dance: "All of which is not itself the Great Dance was made in order that He [Maleldil/Jesus] might come down into it. In the Fallen World [Earth] He prepared for Himself a body and was united with the Dust and made it glorious for ever. This is the end and final cause of all creating, and the sin whereby it came is called Fortunate and the world where this was enacted is the centre of worlds. Blessed be He!" The idea of Original Sin being fortunate since it caused the Incarnation to have to occur is certainly not an exclusively Roman Catholic notion. It is rather like calling the wounds or training scars one receives from a teacher fortunate since they taught you to be a better fighter. Perhaps not an exact match. Try this: The sin I committed when I cheated at cards is fortunate since it caused me to realize how wrong it is to cheat. Not an exact match either since Adam and Eve's sin isn't called fortunate simply because it caused them to realize what a dreadful thing sin was. Or am I getting warmer? God knew it was within human being's nature to sin yet could not prevent their sin by force but only by persuasion (not so modern a concept, eh?); such is the nature of free will. God could tell us the right (obedience) but only we could choose; God could not choose for us. Thus, Original Sin is fortunate in that it was the first step in showing us how wrong it is to sin. Original Sin is especially fortunate since it was the root of sin that was lifted up by our Redemption. In this respect we are affected by Original Sin in the same way that "no man is an island" and "I am a member of the human race, no person or place is foreign to me" and "therefore, do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee." > The carol says that if Adam had not taken the apple "Then had not > Our Lady a been Hevene queen." It's not celebrating Jesus--it's > celebrating the exaltation of Mary. > > Do Catholics really believe this was the reason the fall happened? > Do *you* sing "Deo Gratias" because sin came to exalt Mary? > Are there similar sources in Catholic thought which echo this sentiment. Mary is exalted because of her acceptance of the word of God resulting in the birth of the Messiah. If Adam had not taken the apple then Mary would not have been exalted as Queen of Heaven since Jesus wouldn't have been there to crown her since He wouldn't have risen from the dead and ascended into heaven. Mary's position as Queen of Heaven (as I've often pointed out) is a reference to her subordinate position as first of all the saints; now *that's* a quote from the Catholic Catechism. Try reading it this way: If Adam had not taken the apple then none of the saints of God would have received the crown of life (Letter of James). The Fifth Glorious Mystery is often cited: "The Coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven and the Coronation of All the Saints." Since the Rosary honors Mary, we tend to focus on her Coronation. I gather this reflects the belief that death would not have entered into the world were it not for Original Sin therefore we would have lived forever perhaps never seeing the "beautific vision" of heaven including oneness with God. Based on Lewis, we would have learned of evil eventually, but the oneness would not have occurred until the Great Dance (the end of time). > Steve -- Sincerely, Cindy Smith emory!dragon!cms