Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!decwrl!bacchus.pa.dec.com!granite.pa.dec.com!mwm From: mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) Newsgroups: alt.sources.amiga Subject: Re: Amiga Blues Message-ID: Date: 9 Aug 90 17:10:18 GMT References: <20260001@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> <1037@flash.UUCP> <13697@cbmvax.commodore.com> <1045@flash.UUCP> Sender: news@wrl.dec.com (News) Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica Lines: 105 In-Reply-To: klg@flash.UUCP's message of 8 Aug 90 23:13:55 GMT [Followups have been pointed to comp.sys.amiga.] In article <1045@flash.UUCP> klg@flash.UUCP (Kevin L. Gross) writes: In article <13697@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) writes: But I bought a product that SHOULD last more than 2 years. As soon as the 2000 came out, the support for the 1000 dropped like eagle full of rocks. My friends on their AT's still can buy equipment for them, and some people are STILL selling those things. Yes, support for the 1000 vanished when the 2000 appeared. That steamed a lot of users (me among them). If CBM actually fails to ship 2.0 for the 1000, they're going to steam a lot more users. However, if you look in the right places, you can still buy hardware for the 1000 - good expansion boxes, memory cards, accelerators, etc. >All software is required to be upward compatible. And it should exit >gracefully if it requires hardware of software revisions not present. And >it's illegal to take over the machine. All developers know these things. But they do it anyway...and they all say its due to those requirements that it doesn't work. Some of them MUST be telling the truth. I've watched several times as developers have argued with each other over whether or not any piece of software _has_ to take over the machine and require a reboot. There are good reasons for doing that (usually related to performance). There are also ways to take complete control of the Amiga. They aren't pretty, but they do exist. However developers still just give up, and write software that doesn't follow those rules. There's only 1 good reason I've ever seen for that: "My software just barely fits in 512K now; if I do it the legal way, it won't run on the base-level machine anymore." In other words, the people involved aren't competent enough to make their program behave correctly in low-memory situations. They are telling the truth - if they follow the rules, it doesn't work. If they were competent, it would work. Check out things like "Their Finest Hour" to see that it can be done right. You can help with this problem by refusing to buy games that don't follow the rules. >> 6. Our hardware has to be the last on the expansion slot. > >That's completely illegal, and anyone claiming that will likely fail on >the Amiga 3000's backplane and be forced to fix their mistakes rather >than burden the user with them. And you do find this kind of thing on >the ISA (PC/AT) bus as well. But I have an A1000 that was DESIGNED to do this, and it don't work. No, the A1000 wasn't DESIGNED to do that. People making SOTS cards for the A1000 are breaking the rules. If you do it right, those problems tend to vanish. Right means buying a Zorro expansion box, and putting everything in it. Trouble is, the CBM Zorro I -> Zorro II change happened at about the same time as the A2000 introduction, killing most of the expansion boxes. There are still some to be had, though. >> 7. Normally, memory chips are $100/MB, but for you, an Amiga >> owner, its $700-800 to upgrade from 1MB to 2MB RAM. > >Just like with any computer, once you're out of on-board memory, you >need to add a memory board, not simply another chip. Zorro II memory >boards for the 2000 can be had for under $300 for 2 Megs boards, under >$800 for 8 meg boards, which in fact does happen to work out to $100/Meg. >A1000 memory boards in their own case go for more like $400 for 2 megs. 8 meg for a Intel 386 machine is $700.00 RETAIL! Considering the difference in the size of the markets, I'd say the Amiga was doing pretty good to get that close to the IBM market. But it's better than that. Retail prices for a bare 8meg board on the amiga is about $200. Prices after that is usually less than $100/meg. $50/meg is what Fry's charges for memory for the two Zorro memory boards I sold last month. That comes to 8 meg for $600 - at retail outlets. I'm mad cause Allegra, (who owns the Amiga division I'm told?!?!?) wants to charge me over $400 for ONE LOUSY MEG. This ain't right, chillun. If that's $300 for a SOTS card and $100 for a meg, that's a little high, but not outrageous. All I want is the graphics and sound of the Amiga combined with the speed, power and functionality of UNIX along with the expandibility of a mainframe on my desk at home. But I can't afford a Silicon Graphics machine. You're screwing yourself (with some help from CBM). You bought a machine with excellent expandability, then threw it away buying cheap expansion boxes. You buy a multitasking machine, then buy software that takes over the machine (I can point you to software for Unix boxes that acts the same way). These things are _not_ the fault of the machine or CBM. The only thing that you can blame on CBM is that quality expansion boxes were a long time coming, and that the price of the box is higher than it should be.