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From: wmb@MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Forth in the Marketplace
Message-ID: <9008101427.AA05305@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 10 Aug 90 03:12:43 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: wmb%MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM@SCFVM.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 48

> It would probably be good for larger projects if appropriate
> tools were developed - code libraries, VCS, and the like.
> ...
> A Forth that used standard OS stream files could probably use
> existing project management tools, and would be fully suitable
> for projects of any size
> ...
> But I would be really interested to hear of people's
> experiences with teams of Forth programmers.

At Sun, we use the normal Unix software management methodologies,
primarily based on SCCS (Source Code Control System).  It works pretty
well.  Every now and then I wish for something better, but by and
large it gets the job done.  We have about 6 Forth programmers working
on the same software base, and we have fairly strict revision control
(which is absolutely necessary, since we support several different
computers, at different firmware revision levels, and a lot of money
is riding on the outcome).  We try to do software management things in
pretty much the same way that the Unix people do it, for 2 reasons:

	1) By and large, they know what they are doing, and have
	   developed a strategy which, although a little cumbersome
	   for individualistic Forth cowboys, does indeed work.
	   My butt has been saved several times by SCCS.

	2) Using the same methodologies means that we can use the
	   same release engineering team to help us do external
	   source code releases and archiving.

We use text files for everything, so all the normal Unix text processing
tools work for Forth.  We also use tag files to allow easy navigation
of the code; you just put the editor cursor on a word and you can zap
right to the definition of that word (this works in both vi and EMACS).

There is a lot to be said for being compatible with the rest of the world.

> I would especially be interested to hear of any project management
> tools people have developed in or for Forth programming.

Peter James is a Forth programmer who specializes in databases.
He sells (for big bucks; he has to pay the rent) a software project
management system that is written in Forth and uses a lot of relational
database concepts.  It looks pretty neat, although I haven't actually
used it.  It is not specific to Forth-based projects; it works for
Pascal or C or presumably most anything.  I don't remember the name
of his company.

Mitch