Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rice!news.rice.edu!pete From: pete@titan.rice.edu (Pete Keleher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer Subject: Re: The programming CULT (WOW!) Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 90 19:23:43 GMT References: <1990Aug6.172135.27287@midway.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@rice.edu (News) Organization: Whatsamatta U Lines: 47 In-Reply-To: gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu's message of 6 Aug 90 17:09:00 GMT gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: >>In short, (and overly-simplified), Computer Science is to ComputerProgramming >>what Civil Engineering is to Carpentry. Have you ever met anyone with a BA >>in Carpentry? ... >There are of course many academics who have led to the innovations we take for >granted today, but I personally admire someone like Bill Atkinson or Andy >Hertzfeld, who actually goes out and produces something useful as opposed to >the legions of CS MS's and PhD's, many of whom produce little besides academic >papers. I see the difference not so much as that between carpentry and civil >engineering, but rather as that between a film maker and a film critic: both >have their uses, but I know which I admire more: the one who creatively >produces. Wow, was all I could say at first. Your analogy with the film critic is just so far off base that I have to say something. First, "ivory tower"-types in no way inhibit or constrain, or even comment on what "do'ers" such as Bill and Andy create. Second, Bill and Andy create with tools that "ivory tower"-types make possible. If you don't see the vital connection between basic research done in the last thirty years and tools such as the Macintosh or Hypercard, maybe carpentry really is the field for you. :-) Third, creativity is what basic research is all about. I'll grant you that much research is unimaginative and only incrementally better than what has come before, but the proportion of such noise has to be much much lower than the per centage of programmers who are uncreative. No one denies that Bill and Andy are very creative, but weren't the people that came up with the transister a bit more creative? The analogy with carpentry and civil engineering is apt. A carpenter can build a neat house, but it takes a civil engineer to come up with a new type of house. pete -- ============================================================================= Pete Keleher pete@titan.rice.edu =============================================================================