Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!uwm.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!claris!brendan From: brendan@claris.com (Brendan McCarthy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer Subject: Re: The programming CULT Message-ID: <11170@claris.com> Date: 8 Aug 90 18:55:36 GMT References: <90206.152308GROSSPA@QUCDN.BITNET> <3726@husc6.harvard.edu> <12168@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> <302@saxony.pa.reuter.COM> Reply-To: brendan@claris.com (Brendan McCarthy) Distribution: usa Organization: Claris Corporation, Santa Clara CA Lines: 75 In article <23506@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU>, anarch@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (The Anarch) writes: >In article <3726@husc6.harvard.edu> siegel@endor.UUCP (Rich Siegel) writes: >> My pet peeve about most CS curricula is that they train people to >>be computer scientists, not professional software engineers; I am yet to > >Whoa, that's a shocker! Really, what do you expect from a Computer Science >education but a computer scientist? Computer Science is an academic >discipline, and, like most academic disciplines, doesn't attempt to develop >skills that are readily applicable to non-academic environments. That's why >we have night courses and trade schools (ITT Technical Institue, anyone? :-) Wait just one dang moment! While I agree with you that most Computer Science is theoretical, I must say that the curriculae of different institutions vary widely -- even the backgrounds and experiences of two CS grads from the same university can be vastly different regarding practical experience. In my own experience, at the University of California at Irvine, there were many opportunities to gain experience with "real world" software development processes and techniques as an undergraduate. Some people took advantage of these opportunities, others did not. Then, in article <1990Aug6.220548.22689@dhw68k.cts.com> finnegan@dhw68k.cts.com (Greg Finnegan) writes: >Try the Univ. of CA, Irvine (I'm allowed to plug my alma). A couple years >ago they were cranking out professional-ready Mac programmers left and >right (I think there are still a handful at Claris, a bunch at Apple and >at a few smaller software houses). (Hello, Greg.) Well, since we've been mentioned... For several years at U.C. Irvine, there was a unique project course directed by Professor Thomas Standish. The goal was to develop accessible, engaging educational software. In the summer of '86, the Mac was the chosen machine, and about 20 students enrolled. Some of us had been programming the Mac alone, some had never touched one before; but we all picked topics of interest, formed project teams, shared knowledge, acquired hardware, and developed a culture. By spring of 1988, when I graduated, we had collectively built several useful applications: apps that graphically displayed many common sorting and searching algorithms (SearchSpace); a graphical, interactive paged memory management scheme (Flying Pages); a finite state automata construction kit (MacFSA); a digital circuit simulator (Digital Magic); a graphical, interactive compiler (HeapZone); and many more that I've forgotten. In the process, we all participated directly in the software production process: from design, implementation and management, through to production, manual printing and distribution. (On campus only in most cases, but through the Academic Courseware Exchange in others.) The software was used in the lower division Computer Science courses. Claris snagged about five of us before we'd even graduated. They were convinced that the work we had done was of professional calibre. In toto, AppleWorks GS, Claris CAD, FileMaker II & Pro, MacProject II, MacWrite II, and SmartForms all had CS grads on the teams, all of them very professional software engineers. ---- Greg again: >Boy, you had it easy! [In old croney accent] I remember when all I had >was a 128K Mac running MacTerminal hooked up to a UNIX box at 300 baud >and using SUMEX C :-) Yup! [Other crony scratches a graying, stubbled chin.] 'Member the Inside Mac Phonebook Edition? : CLARIS : ........:.................................................................... : : Brendan McCarthy : UUCP: brendan@claris.com : InterNet: {ames,apple,portal,sun,voder}!claris!brendan : : "We put our faith in those crimson nights, : Set sail in those turquoise days."