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From: chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: Re: The programming CULT (WOW!)
Message-ID: <9649@goofy.Apple.COM>
Date: 9 Aug 90 17:32:19 GMT
References: <1990Aug9.040707.15339@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@Apple.COM
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
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In article <1990Aug9.040707.15339@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> 
mil@mendel.acc.Virginia.EDU (Maria I. Lasaga) writes:
> I find this discussion about the usefulness of a graduate degree
> very interesting.  Out of curiousity, what is the average starting salary
> of a programmer with a CS degree these days?  What about that of
> a programmer without a degree?  Do companies make a distinction?

Finally, someone on this thread with a question that's more than just 
academic! (1/2 :-)

It does definitely vary by company--Apple, for example, has a 
long-standing reputation for being concerned with results over 
credentials, although most of our "wanted" ads lately have listed 
requirements (or at least "desirables") for academic credentials.

I have a two-year degree that I acquired because I knew a piece of paper 
would be useful in getting my foot in the door.  Once my foot is in a 
door, I insist on being accepted on the merits of my work, not on the 
perceived value of the piece of paper.

I'm afraid that I can't answer the salary question in general because I 
don't know, and I can't answer it in specifics because, of course, it's 
company confidential information.  I can offer my personal opinion that as 
an engineer in Macintosh Developer Technical Support who had an industry 
reputation already (from being published in MacTutor and from my previous 
work at ICOM Simulations, Inc.), I'm paid well.  No complaints at all.

One point that I feel that this thread has been missing is the fact that 
education is an ongoing event.  There is never a point at which you 
complete your learning, someone hands you a piece of paper, and you know 
everything about the subject that you will ever need to know.  I got into 
computer programming precisely because I knew that it would never become 
boring--there will always be new developments to keep track of and new 
methodologies, languages, algorithms, data structures, etc. to play with 
and learn to apply in the right places.

Another slice of personal opinion: most programmers that I know don't have 
a good enough grasp of language semantics.  A good example of this problem 
is the war as to whether Pascal or C is the "better" language.  
Semantically, there are no significant differences between Pascal and C; 
the arguments are almost exclusively about syntax.  I believe that anyone 
who chooses to use a language for a particular task because of its syntax 
is selecting the language for the wrong reason.  I also believe that one 
of the reasons that other types of languages haven't quite made it into 
the mainstream is because many of them do have different semantics than 
the familiar old block-structured procedural languages that we all know 
and love.

Then again, maybe it's just me. :-)

__________________________________________________________________________
                                Paul Snively
                      Macintosh Developer Technical Support
                             Apple Computer, Inc.

chewy@apple.com

Just because I work for Apple Computer, Inc. doesn't mean that I believe 
what they believe, or vice-versa.
__________________________________________________________________________