Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: leesa@eecae.ee.msu.edu (Anita Lees) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Mary (was RE: Benjamin Brittan's pagan? carol) Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 90 23:46:52 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 46 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu clh asked (a while ago! mea culpa) for a Catholic response to the current state of devotion to Mary, and how Marian devotion can be reconciled with accepted (Protestant) Christian doctrine. This all was engendered by a posting of Benjamin Brittan's (sp?) carol. I think the question of what mainstream Catholics believe about Mary has been dealt with pretty well already, although I'd add an historical aside. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception was the first ever infallible statement by a pope, Pius IX. The petrine ministry was accorded infallibilty (under various restrictions) during the first Vatican council, in 1870. Many bishops (notably from the US) abstained in the vote, and the decision caused a schism between the Roman Catholic Church and the "Old Catholics" in the US. Note that the Orthodox, who do not accept either Marian dogma, are in communion with the RC Church. The two Marian dogmas (Immaculate Conception and Assumption) originally rested on the priciple "potuit, decuit, fecit" -- "it was possible, it was right, it was done". According to this, if it was proper for God to dosomething (it is always possible), then He did it. The problem is decidingthe "decuit" part. Do we mean proper by our standards, or God's? The Tradition was based on the humanity of Jesus; we assume that He would want the same for His mother as we would for our own mothers. More recently, the Assumption is seen to flow from the sinlessness of Mary. I don't see how believing this could prevent someone from being a goodChristian, as long as the focus is on Jesus and His role as the sole ultimate mediator between humanity and God. I was shocked to read the excerpts posted from Liguori's book, which I have not read. Were any Catholic netters NOT shocked? I looked him up and found this. Alphonsus Mary de Liguori (1696-1787) founded the Redemptorist 1st and 2nd orders. He started out as a lawyer, but later became a priest. Pope Pius IX declared him a Doctor of the Church in 1871. Liguori's book, "The Glories of Mary", is one of the things for which he is supposed to be famous. His theology is an example of Marian maximalism, for a discussion of which see McBrien's tome, "Catholicism". Anita F. Lees leesa@frith.egr.msu.edu -- + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Anita F. Lees leesa@frith.egr.msu.edu