Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: timh@linus.uucp (Tim Hoogasian) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Mormon Religion Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 90 06:55:29 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: IDE, San Francisco Lines: 76 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article you write: >In article cms@dragon.uucp writes: > [lines deleted] >I'm still on a devil's advocate kick here... let's substitute some words and >see if the result is familiar: > >Christians, he maintains, are decent, clean living folk, who are >largely unaware of the inconsistencies and outrageous blasphemies of >their religion. I think Christians want to be Jews, and believe they >are Jews, but the theology of the Latter-day Saints [I think he means >Christians here --clh] is simply not Judaism. > >Or, I could have offended you less by substituting Moslem and Bahai. > no, i don't think so. the "parallelism" you draw is completely invalid. someone who calls himself a Christian knows that he is not a Jew (i won't bother addressing the "Jews for Jesus"). secondly, are you just mouthing those words to see the effect, or are you actually *stating* them as your beliefs? >I think you have proved one point - the LDS are not a Christian church by the >common definitions of other christian churches. no. they're not Christians because Christian churches say so - they're not Christians because their doctrines directly contradict various basic foundational issues that the Bible sets out as mandatory to call oneself a Christian. some extraordinarily prominent breaks with Scripture are: that God was once a man, who somehow "earned" his Godhood, and that men can do the same - hence denying man's essential hopelessly sinful nature; that Jesus Christ took several wives and fathered children; that Christ and Satan are brothers; that Hell does not exist; that Adam is God, and has many wives by whom the Earth is populated with His "spirit-children" who need bodies; that Jesus Christ's death did *not* provide for Salvation, only Resurrection; etc, etc. >Please note, however, that you have not proved the invalidity of the LDS as a >religion. oh, it's a viable "religion". so are Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, and the rest. the whole point, tho, is that Mormonism is not Christianity, despite the fact that it borrows much "Christian" lingo, along with greatly modified doctrine. Neither you not I nor the Bishop of Rome nor any human may say what >constitutes salvation and what does not. strictly speaking, this is true. however, God tells us what *does* constitute salvation - at least, if you're at least somewhat :-/ familiar with the New Testament. Christ says, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. NO ONE comes to the Father, but through Me." (i'd suggest that this is a pretty powerful claim. such a claim demands that either you accept it, and follow Him, or reject Him. there's no middle ground at all, which is just what He intended.) i dunno, henry. this seems pretty straightforward to me. Christ claims that He *alone* provides salvation - if we confess our hopeless sinful nature, asking His forgiveness, and giving Him Lordship of our lives. one other point continues to be missed is that Christianity is NOT a religion. Christianity is a personal relationship with Christ. Christ *never* set up a "religion". the Jews already had one, but it did not Justify them before God. the point that Christ was driving home was that the Law (religion) never saved anyone - it accused and condemned them. instead, He was providing a means of salvation and justification completely separate from the Law - Faith in Christ. Tim | ARPA: timh@ide.com Hoogasian | UUCP: sun!ide!timh (415) 543-0900 =============================================================================== #define DISCLAIMER "Are you nuts? I don't represent anyone, let alone myself!"