Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: frog!jp@harvard.harvard.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Mormon Religion Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 90 09:04:07 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Charles River Data Systems Lines: 74 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu > Mormon apostle James Talmage describes the church's teachings as follows in >his book The Articles of Faith: > >That the Mormons reject the historic Christian doctrine of the Trinity no >student of the movement can deny, for after quoting the Nicene creed and >early >church theology on the Trinity, Talmage, in The Articles of Faith, declares: >"It would be difficult to conceive of a greater number of inconsistencies and >contradictions expressed in words as here...The immateriality of God as >asserted in these declarations of sectarian faith is entirely at variance >with >the Scriptures, and absolutely contradicted by the revelations of God's >person >and attributes..." (p. 48). ... >************** End of Quote ***************** > The Kingdom of the Cults > Walter Martin > pp. 202-219 >I think >Mormons want to be Christians, and believe they are Christians, but the >theology of the Latter-day Saints is simply not Christianity. ... >An assertion as to the truthfulness and accuracy of >the Apostles Creed would be a good start. > >Cindy Smith Just prior to this post, I was told thru email that in order to be Christian, I had to believe that Mary is the Mother of God, if I believe everything else and not this I was not a Christian. With this I dug up some references to this... The Church of Jesus Christ made its appearence in 30 AD, by 70 AD apostles were being killed, by the 2nd and 3rd century the following account is given "The attempt of Gnosticism to blend Christianity with Greek philosophy and Eastern mysticism was successfully withstood by the Church, which strengthened itself to resist persecution from without and heresy (especially in regard to the doctrine of the Trinity) and schism from within, by developing a uniform organization based on an assumed Apostolic creed in the expanded Baptimal Confession, Apostolic office in the Episcopate, and Apostolic canon of truth in the writings of the N.T. [p. 589 Ency. of Religion and Ethics Vol. 3]" From 325 AD to 421 AD Constantine -- who declared himself head of the Church [this action in violation of Hebrews 5:10 that only God call someone to an office and no one can take it upon themselves], later changed the mode of baptism which Mormons, Baptists, and some others currently have, that is total immersion, so that he could be baptized -- and Augustus held four councils where they set the foundation for the beliefs of the Church, including the Trintity and the Mary being the "God-bearer" (or more loosely the "Mother of God") this doctrine caused such an uproar that it wasn't until the 5th or 6th century that another council set the doctrine as fact. Also, during the initial councils held the Bishops held and created a creed and attributed it to the Apostles. I would say that Cindy Smith's contention that Mormons are not Christian, by today's standards is absolutely correct. The christians of 30 AD and the christians of today, are amazingly different. Mormons, or more precisely, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, call ourselves christian, because we are the same type of Christian that existed when Jesus Christ set up his church in 30 AD, further, we don't follow the standards set by these councils of 325 AD through 421 AD. One other point that needs to aired is that we feel that there was a break in the line of authority; history shows this to be correct. I found something interesting today, baptisms for the dead stopped in 327 AD. ------------------------------------------------------- John Pimentel ...!{decvax!mit-eddie!harvard}!frog!jp Disclaimer: The opinion presented, is just that; I take full responsiblity for those parts I've entered. -------------------------------------------------------