Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!mcgill-vision!snorkelwacker!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hedrick@cs.rutgers.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Church and State Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 90 10:43:16 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 39 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I've given some thought to the church/state issue raised by abortion. I agree with the original poster that the issues are complex. But of course that's why it is causing so much trouble nationally. In my view it is proper for laws to be based on principles that can be derived from Christianity, but only under two conditions: - that the laws have a purpose other than furthering religion - that there are also secular justifications As has been pointed out, laws against murder, theft, etc., can be thought of as based on Biblical principles. But of course there are also secular justifications for them. Laws against abortion probably pass this test. I think one can make reasonable non-religious arguments for them. However the fact that a law doesn't violate separation of Church and State doesn't necessarily mean we should pass it. In my view, criminal laws exist primarily to protect us from a few deadbeats who would otherwise try to victimize people. I don't think the Law should be used to impose the will of 51% of the people on the other 49%, where there is genuine disagreement over what is right. I realize there's some vagueness here. There can be discussions about what "genuine disagreement" is, etc. But I simply don't think there is the sort of concensus on abortion that justifies making a law. Of course what is right isn't decided by vote, and lack of concensus is probably of no significance ethically. However I think concensus is relevant to passing laws. There are problems that the State can't fix. A situation where there is widespread disagreement within the society about what is right is a place where I think laws aren't the right tool to solve the problem. The problem with using laws where there isn't a concensus is that it causes the legal structure as a whole to lose its legitimacy. If people start coming to think of the State as simply a way for one group of people to impose their will on another, then they're going to start taking a cynical view of the Law. At that point the Law will have lost its power to have an influence on people ethically.