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From: mrsmith@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Mr. P. H. Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.music,rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Categories of Musicological Analysis
Message-ID: <9969@life.ai.mit.edu>
Date: 19 Aug 90 16:32:14 GMT
References: <9931@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu> <1990Aug19.001007.6827@oracle.com>
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In article <1990Aug19.001007.6827@oracle.com> rjenkins@oracle.UUCP
(Robert Jenkins) writes: 

>A motif is usually about two seconds long -- that is, if you
>listen to a song for four seconds, you can probably pick out its
>motif.  It is like the mood, but it is more definite.  It is a rhythm
>of notes, their times and their emphasis.  It is how the notes rise
>and fall, but not the exact intervals.  It is how the notes are
>executed.  When you hear a motif, you identify it with its song.
>

Are you saying that motif is a general rhythmic and pitch contour? If
so, how is it that instrumentation can be part of the motive? (Sorry,
I accidentally deleted what you said about barbershop quartet music being
non-convertible, motif-wise, to string quartet music).

> [...]
>I like the idea of motifs because it explains why some
>musicians consistently produce good work, and why musicians need to be
>cool.  

Wow, you really must elaborate on this!  I had the notion that
musicians had to be cool depending on their personalities and the
social expectations of their musical community.  To think that
something like motif is the reason musicians need to be cool is really
quite remarkable.  I wish you would explain how you think this might
be so.

>The motif is an abstraction which unifies a song. 

This could be anything from "the human mind" to Platonic forms to the
Schenkerian Ursatz.

>What is this concept really called?  Are these assertions true? 

Don't know.

>Motifs often contain elements which cannot be written down.  This may
>not be true for Bach Inventions, but it certainly is for the blues.

Most mysterious, really.  You imply that motifs in Bach can be written
down, but not in the blues.

>Given the notes, you can only make guesses at what the song really
>is.

What do you mean by "notes" here?  The written notes?  The sounds?  If
you mean written notes, I suppose you are right.  Learning to read
music is learning to make educated guesses at "what the song really
is."  As Mahler said, everything is in the score but the essential.
Maybe he meant something like your idea of motif?

>                          - Bob Jenkins
>                            rjenkins@oracle.oracle.com

Paul Smith
mrsmith@ai.mit.edu