Xref: utzoo alt.security:1403 alt.folklore.computers:4810 comp.society.futures:2012 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!pacbell!sactoh0!vector0!jon From: jon@vector0 (A Product of Society) Newsgroups: alt.security,alt.folklore.computers,comp.society.futures Subject: Re: Feedback on Computer Crime - Apology Summary: Legal standpoint! Message-ID: Date: 19 Aug 90 00:34:05 GMT References: <90224.202102POPOVICH@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu> Organization: Vector Zero Productions Lines: 37 POPOVICH@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu (Peter Edward Popovich) writes: > I guess I'm not very absolute about my ideals, but then again I don't think > there are any moral absolutes. The real deciding factor is motive. If you do > something for learning purposes, I can tolerate it, even if I don't agree > with it. If you do it for profit or for malice, you're scum. Damn right from the legal standpoint. If you murder someone, it can be: premeditated (you planned to do it and did it), intentional (you killed the guy and you wanted to), or accidental (you killed the guy but you *truely* didn't mean it). In hacking there are the same things. There are crashers, who break into systems to *explicitly* wreck them; there are hackers, who break in and look around but don't change anything; and there are "tourists" who break in *just* to get past the Password: prompt (and after which they hang up). All this makes a lot of difference in punishment. The crashers should be hung, the hackers should be slapped, and the tourists should be directed to other challenges. I was busted and the feds laided 8 felony counts on me, basically all the same: I called a number and connected. There was no damage, I didn't even get to the login: prompt - the system needed special software to connect to it. As a minor I got off easy. If I were an adult, I'd be serving 5 to 10 years and over 5,000$ fine. The judge recognized the fact that I was a tourist and let me off easy. Most judges will assume you're a crasher and hang you. It was *all* motive. If I were a crasher, I could have easily lied and posed as a tourist with the same result. But that's America. If you don't like it, move. ___ Jon ..??$!...ames!pacbell!sactoh0!vector0!jon Internet: sactoh0!vector0!jon@pacbell.com "We're sorry, the .signature you have reached has been disconnected. Please check your path and try your read again."