Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!motcsd!dms!rotberg
From: rotberg@dms.UUCP (Ed Rotberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.games
Subject: Re: What features for Mac bridge program?
Message-ID: <1134@dms.UUCP>
Date: 15 Aug 90 18:00:01 GMT
References: <104877@convex.convex.com>
Organization: Atari Games Inc., Milpitas, CA
Lines: 46

From article <104877@convex.convex.com>, by russ@convex.COM (Russell Donnan):
> In article <1990Aug10.165859.28025@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> rolf@sparc1 writes:
>>(...) but what else would you like to see?
>>What options? What kind of interface? What will you use it for?
>>Here is your chance to make your views heard. I will read and consider
>>all responses.
>>--

A truly noble endeavor.  I must tell you that I have long wanted to do just
this, but I WILL NOT foist crap on the bridge playing populace.  I have NO
DESIRE to do just another me too incompetent program.  I already have one
bridge product out for the Mac (Mike Lawrence's Bridge Dealer - no it's NOT
a game) and have talked a lot with Mike about doing a game.  He has agreed
to help if I ever get a line on a good flexible approach.  My best guess
so far would be to write an expert system and let Mike teach it everything
he knows, but this is not trivial, nor is it clear that such an approach
would be at all successful.

The bidder is not nearly the problem that the player is.  I could talk for
pages and pages about the attendant problems with both, but suffice it to
say it is not a task for the casual programmer.  In response to the question
of what I would like to see...

It must not only take into account bids that were made, but also bids not
made by a player (negative inference) in determining proper bidding and
play.  It must not only take into account cards thta are played, but also
cards NOT played (why not??) by a player.  I must continually keep a likely
shape and card scenario for each hand which gets updated as more info is
revealed.  It must be able to LEARN new bidding and playing conventions.
It MUST NOT CHEAT!!!!!

The list goes on and on, but I for one am not interested in a program until
it can do all of the above and more.  All of the games out there so far are
completely incompetant and not good for anything but NOVICE learning.  After
the bare essentials are learned by a player these programs become at best
laughable, and a worst teach BAD habits.

Remember, bridge, unlike chess, is a temporal game.  I chess you can look at
the board at any time and determine the best move without reference to how
the current position was arrived at.  THE SAME IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE OF
BRIDGE!!!!!

Believe me, I know where of I speak.  I have been professionally designing
games for 12 years, and playing bridge for 22.

	- Ed Rotberg -