Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!ucsd!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: cms@dragon.uucp Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Fundamentalism and Catholicism Message-ID: Date: 16 Aug 90 16:29:05 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Projects Unlimited Lines: 180 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu After reading more complaints about the sacrifice of the Mass on this forum, and other complaints, I was beginning to despair of ever explaining the Catholic religion to Protestants. I can suggest that you read "The Catholic Religion," an explanation of Anglican Catholic beliefs, but few Protestants will probably read it, let alone Catholic catechisms, Vatican II, or other explanations of Catholic beliefs and practices that far exceed my own. However, instead of responding to Protestants on this issue, I've decided to respond to Catholics instead (Roman, Anglican, and Eastern). I suggest that you read a good book called "Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on 'Romanism' by 'Bible Christians'" by Karl Keating. It is put out by the Ignatius Press. I'm not suggesting all those who question Catholic beliefs and practices are fundamentalists, but this book is a practical guide detailing how to respond to common attacks on the Catholic religion. One section asks: Has this ever happened to you? Someone walks up to you and asks, "Have you been saved?" They don't care what you're answer is if they know you're Catholic (again, not always true, but often) and proceed to quote the Bible at you before you can get a word in edgewise. You know things are being taken out of context, but you're not exactly sure how. Snappy responses come to you later, but they fail to come out of your mouth when you need them. Most unfortunately, you try to explain Catholic beliefs on your own, get it wrong, or not exactly right, and fall into their trap, since you've just confirmed that "all Catholics believe this wrong thing." You didn't handle the situation well and you know it and the Fundamentalists has won the argument (worse, if in the presence of others), you know he was wrong, but nothing came out right. How to prevent this from happening in the future? How to become a Catholic apologist? Tools of the trade: Get to you know your Bible, read it, get comfortable with it, until walking through Jerusalem with Jesus is just as comfortable as walking through your own back yard. Learn how to argue without antagonizing your opponents or talking beyond their ability to comprehend; both will get you nowhere. After deepening your knowledge of Catholicism, learn Fundamentalism. (This book will help you do both.) Begin your apologetics work with prayer -- you will accomplish nothing without a good prayer life, a good relationship with Jesus Christ, since "instructing the ignorant" will get you nowhere unless you put everything in God's hands including your studies, your discussions, your frustrations, feelings of enlightenment, and successes. Fundamentalists didn't become evangelists overnight -- they had to work at it too. Pray for your apostolate by meditating on Scripture passages, not simply for this work, but for your own spiritual health; in fact, meditating on Scripture passages is good in and of itself and for no other reason than that. Remember, if the only thing that gets you to open the Bible is irritation at anti-Catholic slander, go back to square one. Get a good Bible; there are several good Catholic versions. To be conversant with Fundamentalists, however, it would also be a good idea to get a King James (mentioning that the KJ New Testament was based on the Douay is useful) since Fundamentalists often use it -- some not even realizing it's a translation but believing it is the original -- and discussions are often easier if their wording can be compared with more modern translations (confusions often arise from misunderstandings of 17th century lingo). Next, familiarize yourself with Fundamentalist especially anti-Catholic literature. Take especial note of the topics that are emphasized by them: the Bible as the sole rule of faith, justification by faith alone, the "idolatry of the Mass", "worship" of Mary and the saints, "Catholic inventions," etc. Learn to pinpoint weakness in their arguments. You'll probably notice immediately how anti-Catholic materials are skewed, but makes notes anyway, just to help you remember. Have you ever found yourself saying, "I know it's wrong, but I can't remember why," because they'll be happy to boondoggle you with more distortions. The appendix of this book gives names and addresses of various anti-Catholic organizations; write them and ask for their literature. Once you understand your own faith, their arguments against your faith, you'll be ready to engage in friendly arguments. Don't think it is uncharitable to argue. If you don't, many Fundamentalists will walk away convinced they were right all along. Take a stand in the interests of peace: the more Fundamentalists realize the frequent weaknesses of their positions, the less anti-Catholic rhetoric we'll have to put up with in the future. Also, don't assume everything they say is false, or that there aren't some legitimate differences between Protestants and Catholics; just be on the look-out for unwarranted assumptions and erroneous conclusions. Also, many Fundamentalists are surprised when Catholics argue back -- they don't expect it. (Personal experience: A Jehovah's Witness, who tried to explain that the Trinity was invalid because the word didn't appear in the New Testament, was surprised when I pointed out John 1:1 and other verses to her; she walked away unsure of her position, remarking that a Catholic had never actually taken the time to read the Bible from their point of view to her before.) As you become more comfortable dealing with Fundamentalists, you'll begin to appreciate how limited their repertois of accusations really is. Don't confuse them with "professional anti-Catholics" whose rhetoric never ends, which is expected of people who make their livings attacking Catholics. Most fundamentalists, even those trained for small-scale anti-Catholic work, have done much less Catholic reading than you may think. Furthermore, since most of them assume that "Catholics don't (or aren't allowed) to read the Bible," and know little about their own faith, fundamentalists expect you to be a pushover, hence their surprise when you argue back intelligently. They're not only disturbed at hearing intelligent replies to their accusations, they tend to stumble when you ask them pointed questions about fundamentalism. They'll often retreat by saying, "I have to check with my pastor." There's nothing wrong with that; maybe if their pastor hears your arguments described, he'll become less anti-Catholic himself; perhaps not likely but there's always hope. If you find yourself on the winning side of an argument, *don't gloat*! It only alienates them. You can "win" but make them so angry they retreat further from the Church. Only argue to explain not to win. Be compassionate on them; they think they're doing the right thing. Instead, try to be a good missionary, which is what a good Catholic apologist really is. Don't lose your temper, wave your arms, shout; if you take offense at being called a pagan or blasphemous or stupid when explaining Catholic doctrines, find another way to occupy your time, this kind of work isn't for you. Again, few fundamentalists act out of actual malice; they actually believe what they are doing is right even if they are misinformed. The fault isn't really theirs if they believe the misguided sources they've been given by their own church; one doesn't expect one's church to sell them false dogma. Hatred against the Church must not be counteracted with hatred on behalf the Church; an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind; argue against fundamentalism in charity. Remember, the first time you were cornered with Biblical verses you weren't familiar with, you almost panicked, and said the wrong things. Now that you know the Bible better, don't imitate them by slinging Bible verses left and right; you were unconvinced by this tactic so it's doubtful others will be, although fundamentalists are often surprised to hear a Catholic quote the Bible. Cite verses in context and explain them; don't just cite the verse since the fundamentalists have their own pat interpretations which is all they hear without further explanation. Don't be afraid to quote the Bible, however, just make your points. For example, a common tactic is to say that "rock" signifies God in the Bible and thus could not apply to Peter; just quietly read Matthew 16:18 itself and show how the whole point of the verse is that Peter is being given a title usually reserved for God -- and what did *that* signify? As mentioned earlier, a common tactic is, "Are you saved?" or "The most important thing is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; do you have one?" Saying Mary led to Jesus can be catastrophic if fundamentalists ask you how -- simply explaining how prayer works is a good step. If Mary can't lead you to Jesus, then neither can a fundamentalist :-). Despite their ability to quote the Bible, if you quote the Bible to them, they decide to ask their pastors instead of studying the Bible themselves, something, you should point out, Catholics are often accused of doing far too often. In other words, Catholics are often accused of letting the Church interpret the Bible for them; challenge them to read the Bible for themselves instead of asking their Church to interpret it for them. For many fundamentalists, their pastor is their pope. Thus, some fundamentalists are often more familiar with their pastor's positions than they are with other fundamentalists beliefs, a fact you can use to your advantage. Don't forget to mention that the Church formed the Bible; the Bible did not form the Church. Before the Bible was established, the Church taught the fundamental doctrines of the faith, and the Church eventually established which books correctly taught that faith. Thus, the early Church Fathers are an importance source in understanding what the Bible means and what it was originally intended to mean. Fundamentalists may say: "Let begin by admitting that the Bible is the sole rule of faith." This translates into: "Let's begin by admitting that the Church has no authoritative role; all answers to religious questions are in Scripture alone." Don't agree, it isn't true. Ask your opponent to prove that the Bible was intended to be the sole rule of faith; he won't be able to since the Bible itself makes no such claim rather calling itself "profitable" for salvation, but you need to read the Bible to be able to cite the right verses. For example, Scripture alone does not say that Scripture alone contains all the things that were taught as true by the Church (such as purgatory, for instance). How you can use fundamentalists knowledge of the Bible but lack of knowledge of Christian doctrine to your advantage is important -- they often know little Church history, less theology, and have never seen a catechism (not even the Lord's Catechism, at least in that format). Point out that if early Christians writers, who were sometimes taught by the Apostles or those close to the Apostles, took a sacrificial priesthood for granted without even arguing the point, this is a powerful argument on your side. If writers living a few generations after Christ spoke of the Real Presence (which they did), this strongly favors Catholic interetations of John 6. Make an effort to show doctrines in conjunction with other related doctrines with which the fundamentalist may agree, customs in relation to doctrines, customs in relation to other customs, New Testament in relation to the Church, Church history as a witness of the Christian faith. Well, I could go on. I've hit a lot of the highlights. Instead of responding to more anti-Catholicism, I think I'll others ammunition to carry on the fight. I'm getting a little burned out on the issue. Get the book; don't wait for the movie. -- Sincerely, Cindy Smith emory!dragon!cms