Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bralick@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Will Bralick) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Mormon Religion Message-ID: Date: 16 Aug 90 16:33:14 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Self Similar Lines: 91 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) writes: | In article cms@dragon.uucp writes: | | > One of the major problems with the validity of the Book of Mormon is its | >contention that two great civilizations once flourished on the American | >continent; it describes buildings, machinery, shipping and shipbuilding,[...] | ^^^^^^^^^??? | | The BoM does not give a great deal of geographic information about | the Americas, but the most likely site for it is Mesoamerica, the | area from about Mexico City southward to near or a little beyond | the Yucatan peninsula. Are you claiming that great civilizations | are not consistent with archeology in that region? Check out the | Olmecs and the Mayas. And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of the land and became exceedingly rich in gold, and in silver, and in precious things, and in find workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in MACHINERY, and also in iron and copper, and brass and STEEL, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, ... Jarom 1:8 Yes, it says machinery. Of course, an inclined plane is a machine, so this isn't surprising. What _is_ surprising is that it also says _steel_. Where has _steel_ been found in any Mesoamerican dig dating from the relevant period? | > [...] | [...] | > metals supposedly made and used by these | >civilizations have never turned up. | | What about all that gold Cortez and Pizzaro were after? I think that cms was referring to the _steel_ mentioned above. The Nephites (to whom this _steel_ is attibuted) are alleged to have come to the Americas ~600 B.C. and were wiped out by the Lamanites ~428 A.D. so this _steel_ was a tremendous advance for their culture, since the best the Europeans could do was wrought iron until, what, the 17th cent. | Of course the conventional wisdom used to be that metal began to be | used in America around 900 AD. However, recent discoveries have | pushed this back to at least before the time of Christ. Well, "metal use" and making _steel_ are two _very_ different things. Iron use has > 3000 years of history, but it wasn't until the last few centuries that _steel_ was available. | [...] | | > The Book of Mormon has more than 25,000 words quoted from the King James | >Bible.... | | And what does that do to New Testament quotations of the Septuigent | version of the Old Testament? Scripture quotes older scripture and | any translator will naturally go the translation of the original | source. But Joseph Smith wasn't just a translator, was he? The Mormon religion claims that he was a prophet and the translation was `divinely inspired.' No biblical _translator_ that I know of claims to have been divinely inspired (the _authors_ were divinely inspired, not the _translators_). | Of course there are differences and it is instructive ... I think that the real question is, why would a 19th century American translate (divinely inspired from the _original plates_) into 17th century British English? A not insignificant advantage for biblical scholars is that they can go back to the earliest manuscripts. This is not true of the "plates" from which the BoM was taken. | You have presented a very one-sided picture. If you listen only to | one side of any story you are likely to be deceived. Well, I think that what cms was trying to convey is that LDS is the only pantheistic religion which portrays itself as also being a Christian religion. It is the only religion which claims that we can all become gods -- just like God the Father, and his sons Jesus and Satan -- and still portrays itself as being a Christian religion. Regards, -- Will | If no set of moral ideas were truer or bralick@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu | better than any other, there would be no bralick@gondor.cs.psu.edu | sense in preferring civilised morality to with disclaimer; use disclaimer; | savage morality... -- C.S. Lewis