Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM!wmb
From: wmb@MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Commercial Forth systems
Message-ID: <9008201424.AA05239@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 18 Aug 90 07:44:36 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: wmb%MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM@SCFVM.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 49

> What I want to know is why commercial Forths are so bloody expensive.

1) Some of them are not "so bloody expensive".  My "off the shelf"
   Forths range in price from $50 to $200.

2) The basic problem is that the market for Forth products is extremely
   small compared to the market for C compilers.  With a C product, you
   can amortize your fixed costs over about 100 times as many units
   as with Forth.

I would encourage anyone who wonders about the prices of Forth systems
to spend 20 minutes working out a "rough cut" business plan based on
sales of Forth systems.  Suppose that you want to support yourself
(assume you are providing half the income for a family of four).
You will need an office, at least 2 phone lines, a copier and FAX machine,
at least 2 or 3 computers (one of them will probably need to be "loaded"
so you can do a reasonable job of answering your customer's questions),
and at least one employee (to answer the phone, pay the bills, ship orders,
keep records, etc).

Figure out how much all this will cost, and divide that by the number
of Forth systems you think you can sell.

Keep in mind that, in trying to sell Forth systems, you will have quite
a bit of competition at the low end from public domain systems, and at
the high end from established Forth vendors.


> Forth Inc sells polyForth for > $3000 last I heard.  I have NEVER seen
> a C compiler that expensive (I don't read the Cray audience trade rags
> either though).

Before C became extrememly popular, and thus entered the commodity
market, $3000 was a typical price for a commercial-quality C compiler.

Even now, not all C compilers cost $100.  A friend of mine is looking for
a real 32-bit C compiler for a 386 machine to run under DOS (i.e. PharLap
DOS extender), and he has figured that is is going to set him back something
like $800.

A *typical* price for an excellent commercial Forth system is in the $400
range.


> If a cheap Forth came out, I would buy it.

Which machine?  I have several inexpensive Forth systems, with source.

Mitch