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From: wmb@MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Prices of Forth systems
Message-ID: <9008230646.AA00497@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 22 Aug 90 03:05:04 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: wmb%MITCH.ENG.SUN.COM@SCFVM.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 51

> Well, if you have been advertising I have not seen your ads.
> In most of the ads I have seen, and have gotten bingo card info on,
> Forth systems start near $150 and go up.  My impression is that your
> prices are an exception.

I can't afford to advertise, at the low prices I charge.

No kidding; the cheapest advertising vehicle is Forth Dimensions, at
a few hundred dollars per issue.  At $50 (the price of my Forthmacs
product for Atari ST and Macintosh), I make about $30, which isn't very
good money considering the time it takes to fill the order.  I would
have to sell 10 copies from the ad in order to just break even.  I tried
it once and the response wasn't *nearly* that good.

Advertising rates in Sun-related magazines are in the $10,000 range.
I make about $150 on a sale of Sun Forth.  Think it's worthwhile
advertising?  There are over 100,000 Suns in the world, but how many
Sun users want to use Forth?  Not many.

The vendors of inexpensive Forth systems have either
a) Gone out of business
b) or, run "shoestring" businesses like me, and can't afford to advertise

One can easily make more money from a single consulting job than I have
made from 5 years worth of sales of ST and Macintosh Forthmacs and C Forth 83.


> Now Jax will surely tell us about how there is a $K billion market for
> Forth in Embedded Systems and Real-Time Control.

But the profitable way to participate in that market is not by selling
"shrink-wrapped" Forth language systems, but by selling boards and
consulting services and problem solutions.


> I think this last point (which I moved down from further up in your original
> message) is important.  If I were buying a Forth system to support or
> develop a commerical venture, I would probably buy a commercial Forth
> system just for the piece of mind, and I would probably have the cash to
> afford it.  As a hobbyist I can't afford that, and I don't need or want
> it anyway.

A very important point indeed!

What you have basically hit on is the fact that a vendor can't make
enough money selling to hobbyists for it to be worthwhile, unless there
are other motivations (like in my case, I get a kick out of selling to
hobbyists.  My wife frequently urges me to stop though, because it really
isn't worth the time).

Mitch