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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures
Subject: RE Feedback on Computer Crime - Apology
Message-ID: <9008210016.AA14566@world.std.com>
Date: 21 Aug 90 00:16:35 GMT
References: <4c517e56.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>
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From: Peter Nelson
>  But the "moral niceties" are CENTRAL to the issue.   Copying com-
>  mercial software and giving it to our friends either IS or IS NOT 
>  stealing.  And we have to decide that issue.   If it isn't stealing
>  then Mr. Shein is certainly correct in decrying the use of public
>  money to defend these companies.  But if it is stealing then these 
>  companies have every right to expect the state to protect them.
>  Although Usenet is full of debates about the role of government
>  all but the most minarchist people believe that stopping "theft
>  and fraud" is a legitimate government function.   

I am arguing that the mere act of using something that you haven't
paid for may be, in the abstract, "stealing", but that does not imply
absolutely that the state has an obligation to spend taxpayer's money
on the matter.

Some analogies for consideration...

1. You have a lovely privet hedge in front of your home.  Every
morning, on the way to work, I pluck one small leaf off it as I walk
by. This irritates the hell out of you, although you would be
hard-pressed to even find which leaf is missing (since there are
millions of leaves in a privet hedge.) So you call the police and
insist that I am stealing that leaf and I should be arrested for
stealing your property, you call for a stake-out, investigation,
volunteer to press charges etc.  What outcome do you realistically
expect?

2. You run a private museum with some interesting sculptures in the
garden and charge a sizeable admission. My upstairs porch overlooks
your sculpture garden.  You notice that on weekends my friends and I
gather on my porch to have a drink and marvel at all the wonderful
sculptures you bring in, at great expense to you, each week. In fact,
if some stranger knocks on my door and asks if they can look also I
invite them right in and hand them a pair of opera glasses. You call
the police and insist that my dozens of friends etc. represent
significant lost income to you and we are stealing exactly what you
are selling, the opportunity to gaze upon your fine sculpture. What
outcome do you realistically expect?

So it's not absolute on the surface, unless you can really argue that
the above incidents are prosecutable. It's actually quite a matter of
situation and the circumstances. At the point that I am "stealing"
something not of tangible value (a notion the law recognizes very
clearly and strongly, "tangible" value), you are immediately on quite
shaky footing and have to pull out all sorts of licensing, copyright
etc laws. Even copyright is hardly correct since all those laws tend
towards *publishing* of works that are not yours. Making a copy for a
friend is not publishing, they stretch the laws to suit their desires.
In fact, many violations are limited to some calculation based on
income received (not expenses saved!) by publishing a work under
copyright, although you can always sue to stop someone from publishing
even for free.

The law may not be what you hope, some simple set of algorithms,
universally applicable to any minutiae that interests you. The law, in
fact, is deeply steeped in practicality and considerations of real
harms.

The law does not generally recognize the claim that I stole your soul
with my camera, as appealing as that atavistic fear may be.

>  There are certainly other industries which depend on the police 
>  for their protection.  Banks, for one.  And the insurance industry
>  couldn't exist without strong punishment for insurance fraud.
>  The pharmeceutical industry is likewise dependent on vigorous
>  enforcement of patent laws:  the real cost many drugs is in the 
>  R&D and testing process; often the manufacturing cost is fairly
>  trivial, and it would be easy to copy if other companies could get
>  away with it.

Only your last example is relevant, and it's a good one. But the
problem is that it's not generally assumed that I will do damage to
Pfizer by manufacturing Haldol in my kitchen. The implication is that
someone has gone into the business of manufacturing and selling.

Again, the issue of degree is critical. In the case of people like the
SPA (et al) they are trying to use the police to enforce against what
is not a manufacturing or sales distribution at all, but the mere
private use of a copy of software.

Note: I am not arguing the ethicality of copying software, I am merely
wondering if the software industry has created these problems for
itself by badly managing their entire industry.

Several examples were given earlier in this discussion about analogues
like music cassettes where the motivation to buy a $5 blank tape just
to copy a $10 music tape is hardly a motivation, thus not that great a
problem.

Copying a $500 software package by buying $5 worth of floppies seems
to be a situation akin to storing diamonds in open containers in front
of your house and then demanding the police stand guard lest some
crook steal them. Certainly the person who stole them committed a
crime, but if the society responds that perhaps you should store your
diamonds in some better way is also valid, being as you are obviously
fully aware of the problem you are creating. And if you cannot come up
with the solution or find it too expensive (but safes cost money!),
well, perhaps you are in the wrong business.

>  There may not BE a solution, or at least one which consumers 
>  would accept.  It's easy to say they should do "something"
>  but on the other hand, anyone who DOES come up with a good 
>  anti-piracy scheme will get disgustingly rich overnight if
>  it cannot be defeated and is also acceptable to the market.

Perhaps there is no solution. So, therefore, we should subsidize the
profitability of this industry with billions of tax dollars?

I am not so certain, perhaps you are.

        -Barry Shein

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