Xref: utzoo alt.security:1434 alt.folklore.computers:4893 comp.society.futures:2048 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!samsung!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v116kznd From: v116kznd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David M Archer) Newsgroups: alt.security,alt.folklore.computers,comp.society.futures Subject: Re: Re: Feedback on Computer Crime - Apology Message-ID: <33788@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> Date: 27 Aug 90 00:21:42 GMT References: <1990Aug25.095033.29589@funet.fi> Sender: news@acsu.Buffalo.EDU Reply-To: v116kznd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu Followup-To: alt.security Organization: University at Buffalo Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4.2 >(1) Knowingly accesses and without permission alters, damages, deteles, >(2) Knowingly accesses and without permission takes, copies, or makes >(3) Knowingly and without permission uses or causes to be used >(4) Knowingly accesses and without permission...alters...data... >(5) Knowingly and without permission disrupts or causes the disruption >(6) Knowingly and without permission provides or assits in providing a >(7) Knowingly and without permission accesses or causes to be accessed Now I'm hardly a law student, but I do at least understand most of English, and so I ask a question. Since all of these things start with the word Knowingly, doesn't that person mean they have to know what they are doing? Unless people dial wrong numbers on purpose, I then don't think these laws would apply. In a loose sense, I could imagine that when using either a modem with ATE set or in telneting to somewhere, that since the person could look at the screen and verify what they typed before they hit return, making a wrong connection in one of those ways could be considered as knowing (or at least negligence), but in the case of a phone call with a normal phone, there's not really any way of knowing you dialed a wrong number until after you dialed it. I've also had cases where my modem didn't dial the number correctly (or perhaps the phone company equipment didn't work right, or something), and in that case, I'd have no way of knowing what had been done. There's also cases where someone might post Xyz's mainframe's phone number as a local BBS, and then someone else might call that number, not knowing what he was doing. Etc. Etc. Etc. I think maybe some of the people who said you needed a better lawyer might have been right, or maybe there's more to this than you've told us, or as usual, I might have missed something.