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From: bryden@sun.udel.edu (Christopher F. Bryden)
Newsgroups: alt.security,alt.folklore.computers,comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: Feedback on Computer Crime - Apology
Message-ID: <13664@sun.udel.edu>
Date: 28 Aug 90 00:15:03 GMT
References: <available on request>
Reply-To: bryden@sun.udel.edu (Christopher F. Bryden)
Followup-To: alt.security
Organization: The Company
Lines: 43

In article <> scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes:
}In article <> jon@vector0 (A Product of Society) writes:
}>eal@kaarne.tut.fi (Lehtim{ki Erkki) writes:
}>> [deleted story about *accidental* connect to wrong computer]
}>> Now, have I committed a crime or not?
}>    Yes, if in California and the connection was not interstate.
}>[penal code...]
}>(3) Knowingly and without permission uses or causes to be used
}>    computer services.
}>     [ You did this one:  You used computer services without permission.
}>    But as per a court ruling somewhere, a "Welcome to.." message was
}>    judged to be adiquate permission. ]
}Does the word "knowingly" have any meaning or is it just a legal
}buzzword?  How does someone "knowingly" dial a wrong number.

The word "knowingly" has to be taken in context, though.

I know that many franchise businesses have cash-register computer systems 
that are interrogated by the parent companie's mainframe at the end of each 
business day (it keeps the owner of the franchise honest).  Usually, the over
glorified cash-register just sits on the line until the mainframe correctly 
identifies itself.

Now, if the phone number to the cash-register at the local Roy-Rogers happens 
to end up on a well distributed list of local bbs's to call, there is the 
potential for a big problem.

So, Joe Intrepid User tries to call the Roy's cash-registers thinking that he 
has every right to access this bbs that god/the constitution has granted him.
Roy's starts to get pissed when their mainframe can't connnect because JIU is 
tieing up the line every night from 11pm to 2am.  Roy's calls the police.

Now, if you were going to try to rip off Roy's, wouldn't you publicize their
number to the "hacker community" in an effort to look like part of the noise?

Of course you would.

Most big computer scams are pulled off by people on the inside.  Why?  Because
people on the inside have knowledge that isn't available to people who aren't.
If I were going to rip off a company computer (which I wouldn't do), I would
want as many monkeys with keyboards banging away at the company computer as I
could possibly manage.  Personally, I can't think of a bigger source of monkeys
than the "hacker community" (no offense intended, of course).