Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uflorida!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!sgi!silvlis.com!jimb
From: jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Low cost Mac's ?
Message-ID: <1990Aug23.080534.6697@silvlis.com>
Date: 23 Aug 90 08:05:34 GMT
References: <66968.26D14DFC@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> <1990Aug22.164847.7912@portia.Stanford.EDU>
Sender: usenet@silvlis.com (USENET news maint)
Reply-To: jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler)
Organization: Silvar-Lisco,Inc. Sunnyvale Ca.
Lines: 95

In article <1990Aug22.164847.7912@portia.Stanford.EDU> aaron@jessica.stanford.edu (Aaron Wallace) writes:
>In article <66968.26D14DFC@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) writes:
>
>>But why do you need more slots than a Classic? 
>
>Fax modems, CPU accelerators, memory beyond 4 meg, *real* netowrking
>(like EtherTalk), better/color video, and anything that may spring up in the
>future.

All available, except better/color video, without using a slot.
Better color/video is available using the PDS, which has been available
on the SE.

>         What if 2.88 meg floppy drives come out?  On the 386, just
>put in a controller and drive; on the Plus, it's the motherboard/ROM swap.
>Maybe.

Really? I upgrade from a 400k drive to an 800k drive with a ROM/drive swap.
The fact that Apple didn't make the 800k to 1.44M upgrade available to
models that didn't have the same ROM capacity is unfortunate.
I can get a non-Apple 1.44M drive for my Mac from a third party, just
like IBM clone folks. Just not from Apple. Shucks.
>
>>To handle all the stuff that
>>any Mac has built-in--networking, serial ports, hard/floppy disk ports, sound
>>port, mouse port. 
>
>It's nice to include it all--but not on the motherboard.  What if you want, 
>say, a 1:1 interleave HD controller, a high-density floppy controller, faster

Uh. I *have* a 1:1 interleave hard disk on my 512ke. The only time I
swapped a mother board was when I went from a 128k to the 512k.

Oh, sorry, I spent $79 for a SCSI port.

You ignored the $150 to $500 it costs a IBM'er to add a network. I
guess it wasn't important to you.

>networking, or, as happens, something breaks?  Swapping cards is cheaper than
>swapping motherboards, as a friend of mine with an old SE discovered when
>looking into getting a "super"drive.  I can stuff one of those in an XT for
>about $130...

I'll give you a lower cost ($130 vs. $400) on the superdrive. You
still lose on the network, and on the PC to XT upgrade vs. the
Mac 128 to MacPlus upgrade. Or the XT to AT upgrade vs. Mac 128 to
MacPlus upgrade. In case you don't remember: $1000/0 = infinity.

>>Yes, in raw terms, a 20 MHz 386 machine is faster than an 8 MHz 68000 machine.
>> Now, do this:  graft the holy grail of OS enhancements, Windows 3.0, onto that
>>386 machine.  Now, let's talk performance in terms of what the user can do and
>>how well/quickly he can do it.  We're probably at about the same level, comparing
>>your machine and the Classic.
>
>Remember that MacWeek found that a 10 MHz AT and a Plus/SE run at about
>the same level of performance, subjectively and otherwise.  MacUser (or
>was it MacWeek) also had a Windows/Mac benchmark set, but the results were
>flawed because the graphics test compared Illustrator for the Mac with
>Corel Draw for Windows in the only test in which there was an appreciable
>difference.

I'm sorry there weren't comparable graphics programs *available*.

>
>>Now, for an exercise, go ahead and install Windows 3.0 on that $700 (that's
>>without monitor and hard drive) 12 MHz 286 AT clone.

Fine, now if your no-name $700 clone is still working in 6 years
with as little maintanence as my 6 year old Mac 128k I'll believe it
is comparable.

>
>Better yet, find a dealer whose prices are more in line with the industry,
>get the $700 12 MHz AT clone *with* 40 meg hard disk and monitor, and then
>give it a try...  (p.s. it works!)
>
>Aaron Wallace

Will it still be working in 6 years?
Which industry?
Can you really give a name and address where I can buy a 12mhz AT
clone for $700 with a 40 Meg hard drive? Would I trust it to turn on?

What I find is:
Mono -> $900
EGA -> $1150
VGA -> $1250
All with no hard disk, but with an HD controller. 40 meg, add $300.

Thanks, but no thanks

jim
--
Jim Budler          jimb@silvlis.com       +1.408.991.6061
Silvar-Lisco, Inc. 703 E. Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, Ca. 94086