Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Mormon Religion Message-ID: Date: 21 Aug 90 02:02:48 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Lines: 57 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article bralick@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Will Bralick) writes: >In article hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) writes: >| In article cms@dragon.uucp writes: >| I questioned Cindy's assertion that the Book of Mormon mentioned machinery. Will corrects me: > And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of the > land and became exceedingly rich in gold, and in silver, and in > precious things, and in find workmanship of wood, in buildings, > and in MACHINERY, and also in iron and copper, and brass and > STEEL, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the > ground, ... > Jarom 1:8 >Yes, it says machinery. Of course, an inclined plane is a machine, >so this isn't surprising. What _is_ surprising is that it also says >_steel_. Where has _steel_ been found in any Mesoamerican dig dating >from the relevant period? You are right, I overlooked that. As for steel, I don't know of any finds in Mesoamerica of steel made from iron in the relevant period but this leaves 2 possibilities: 1. It simply hasn't been found. Quite possible considering that they probably never had much of it to begin with and it would corrode rapidly in that cimate. 2. The "steel" was a tempered version of some other metal such as copper, bronze, or tumbaga. This is likely also the source of the steel used in the Old Testament for bows. (2 Sam 22:35, Job 20:24, Jer 15:12) ... >Well, "metal use" and making _steel_ are two _very_ different things. >Iron use has > 3000 years of history, but it wasn't until the last >few centuries that _steel_ was available. I think you are confusing first availability of steel with the time it was produced in large quantities. The _Encyclopedea Britannica_ describes how "shortly after" (unfortunately they do not give exact dates here) the Greeks got iron in 1000 BC they began heating layers of it between layers of charcoal, effectively making steel. Also the earlier iron was produced in a spongy matrix and hammered into shape. That hammering is a way to make steel, ask anyone with blacksmith experience. >I think that the real question is, why would a 19th century American >translate (divinely inspired from the _original plates_) into 17th >century British English? The language is what is known as "formal language" and was used on formal occasions well past 1830. Check out some of Webster's speeches given after this time. To have used "common" language for the sacred would have been an offence (and still is to some people).