Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jarthur!nntp-server.caltech.edu!news From: acsghgk@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Hanif Khalak) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: RE: Muslim View on Middle East Conflict Message-ID: <1990Aug25.021046.661@laguna.ccsf.caltech.edu> Date: 25 Aug 90 02:10:46 GMT Sender: news@laguna.ccsf.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 165 Approved: bes@tybalt.caltech.edu [Moderator's note: replies to this article should remain of some relevance to Islam to be approved for posting. Thanks, Behnam ] In article <14598@wpi.wpi.edu>, goer@sophist.uchicago.edu (Richard Goerwitz) writes... > > >Question. When does right and wrong take precedence over religious >allegiance? Put differently, is it ever conceivable that a Muslim would >side with a Christian to put down a threat from an evil Muslim? It isn't inconceivable. > >Another question: Is it wrong for a Muslim (say, King Saud) to call for >the aid of a Christian, when in fact the Christian's motivations for hel- >ping might be mainly economic? Put differently, let us suppose we have You're assuming that the U.S. is Christian in a RELIGIOUS sense. If the U.S. is a Christian spiritual entity, than foreign/domestic/social policy must not be part of Christian spirituality, because the motivations are HARDLY moral. Masonic, maybe. Another (mighty faulty) assumption is that Saud'i is a Muslim regime. I don't konw if you follow the history of the Royal Family, but they don't deserve to be called Muslim religiously speaking. If you aren't interested in spirituality, again... >a leader who uses chemical weapons against his own people, attacks his >neighbor to the northeast, and then attacks his neighbor to the south- >east. It would be highly reasonable to think that such a person would >not suddenly change his demeanor and cease attacking other countries for >the rest of his life. Let us also assume that we have a great kingdom >encompassing the heartland of Islam, Medina, Mecca, etc., and that it is >poorly defended from this person. And let us assume, finally, that this >kingdom has a Christian friend with a great economic interest in the sta- >bility of that kingdom. Would it be a wise or unwise move for that great >kingdom to call on the aid of its Christian friend in order to prevent >further aggression on the part of the leader? > Why isn't the U.S. defending Turkey? Or Iran? Or Syria? More borders there to 'worry' about. Less OOZ's, though (Operative Oil Zones). I'm not so much worried about the U.S. going INTO S.A., but rather, NOT coming OUT. XREF: Israel/Lebanon. Saudi security is not necessarily the same thing as Muslim security. Sadam, with his politics has finally brought to head many hypocrisies in the govts of the Arab world. I think that one thing that Muslims should NOT be trapped into doing is taking this favorite litmus test of 'with us or against us' because of political mindslaughter, instead of relying on the robust principles of Islam which don't side with particular men, cultures, borders, bank accts., crude reserves, or power structures, but rather, enjoin felicity of spirit, the power of thought and action in goodness, and justice. Sadam's actions, no matter what 'justification', involved irrefutable aggression. This is wrong. >A comment: With Hussein brashly attacking his neighbors, is it really >sensible for everyone to continue harping on Israel? While everyone >sits around quibbling about this one, small country next to the Mediter- >ranean, Hussein gasses his people, brutally attacks Iran, invades and >loots Kuwait, and then masses troups on the Saudi border. Israel is >indeed a problem right now. I know, not simply from reading the papers. >My brother-in-law taught Arab children on the West Bank, and saw the >imprisonments, intimidation, and animosity first hand. I am opposed to >this situation. I plead, however, for some perspective. It seems that >some Muslims are fixated on Israel to the point of ignoring a much greater >and more immediate threat. It is almost as if, by being Muslim, one has >the right to play the part of a tyrant, just as long as he holds the >"correct" political attitudes towards Israel and the US. > I agree. The paranoid mentality toward Israel makes the Muslims like the Jews are against the Germans and Muslims. >Plea: Will some voice of sanity please side with me, a Christian, in >saying that the Israeli situation is indeed in need of a solution, but >that this is not the time or the place to fixate on it? We have here >a man who has had his eye on all of his neighbors, and who represents >not only an economic threat to the US, but a military threat to thou- >sands of innocent civilians and to all his peaceful Arab neighbors. Is >it not important that we unite for this common goal? > Language may be trivial to some, but... Again, you're assuming that your perspective is a bastion of sanity in the midst of imbecility. Condescension is not a good way to get support. :) More to the point, is there a right time or place to fixate on individual things? Is everything a mass of disconnected, irrelated points of information? I don't think so. And yet with all of our disconnection, we should work for a 'common' goal? Why isn't the U.S. in Eritrea trying to save millions (not thousands) from starvation by halting destruction and mutilation and political corruption? Why isn't the U.S. in Tamil/Sri Lanka easing tensions which have resulted in massacres 'a la carte'? Why isn't the U.S. in Burma? Korea? (oops..) Well anyway.. this carte noire machiavellian attitude that the U.S. has in foreign (and to some extent, domestic) policy is sickening. >I would only remind those who worry about a US presence in Arabia, that >the US is primarily an economic power, and has very little interest in >conquest. I would point to Europe and Japan, which were crawling with >American military personnel forty years ago. Both now are prosperous, >in contrast to their neighbors (which were taken over by the Soviet >Union). Assaudiyya will not become an American colony, for heaven's >sake. Does anyone really believe that we would be that stupid? Again, So domination by Western (American) materialism and bogus policies is an evident goal of humanity? We won't say anything to further the comparison between the ex-cold war partners. The age of mercantilism was long over, but greed and imperialism is shrouded in many guises. I'm not too sure if Saudi Arabia isn't ALREADY a 'colony' of the U.S. In a twenty-first century sense. >I emphasize: Let us not strain at the gnat, while swallowing the camel. >Let's not quibble over the presence of some westerners on the northern >Saudi frontier, and let an evil Muslim walk into Saudi Arabia over the >dead bodies of his fellow Muslims. Realism and expediency are in order >here, not to mention right and wrong. The battle hardened troups of a >mad Muslim are infinitely more dangerous to the lives of people in the >Near East than the troups of a Christian friend. Even if the motives >of the Christian friend are not pure as fresh-fallen snow, they are at >least better than those of a man who, professing Islam with the lips, >attacks (without provocation) the Iranians, the Kuwaitis, and then masses >troups on the Saudi frontier. I don't know if you read many Eastern media, but Sadam has treated Muslims from neighboring nations quite well. Even the expatriots of Egypt. Many thousands of Hajjis (Pilgrims) from Mecca going to India and ports west were released by Sadam and treated quite well. Sadam's calling a holy war (in spite of the fact that he is a secular Socialist) is proof that he wants Muslim support, not conflict, for whatever his reasons. > >Assalaam alaykum (with salaam in italics). > Wa'alaikum Assalam, wa Rahmatullah, wa Barakatu'. >A Christian friend, > I much more accept your Christian friendship than that of the U.S. govt. :) >Richard > >P.S. Is there anyone out there who agrees with me, or is my voice >a lone one, crying in the wilderness? Again, where IS this 'wilderness'? May our efforts be of goodly intent and fruition, God Bless those who do good works. Barak Allah Fiq.. Peace and sincerity, Hanif Khalak