Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!decwrl!sgi!vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com From: vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com (Vernon Schryver) Newsgroups: comp.mail.uucp Subject: Re: Who pays the bill? Message-ID: <66101@sgi.sgi.com> Date: 4 Aug 90 03:08:23 GMT References: <26A738A8.725B@tct.uucp> <26B70994.578B@intercon.com> Sender: vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 64 In article <26B70994.578B@intercon.com>, amanda@mermaid.intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes: > What's wrong with > > bionet!oracle!decwrl!sgi!apple.sgi.com!user > > ..? If 'sgi' knows about oni.sgi.com, why wouldn't it know about any > other machine in its domain? > > From the start of Usenet, UUCP host names have always supposed to be unique. > -- > Amanda Walker > InterCon Systems Corporation Well, I've only been watching this stuff since 1982. That was long after it was well established; I know I am a newcomer. During that time, I had the distinct impression that UUCP host names only had to be LOCALLY unique. That is, UUCP does not work unless your immediate neighbors have unique names. It has been true since the start of the wonderful mapping project that all of the UUCP names in the UUCP maps must be globally unique. This is one of the least important of the several good reasons that apple.sgi.com will never appear in the UUCP maps, and so will never be reachable via a pathalias probe of "apple." Also among the unimportant reasons are the fact that even within the sgi.com domain, there hostnames that are not unique unless qualified. Among the important reasons is the fact that there are thousands of machines in the sgi.com domain. Please note that "apple.sgi.com" thinks its domain is "sgi.com". It and all other machines internal to sgi.com do not answer ping's from the Internet for reasons not relevant to this discussion. The related MX hassles are also irrelevant. What would you suggest machines in the sgi.com domain do when presented with the UUCP route "apple!user"? I see two alternatives, neither perfect, but one that will generate fewer local complaints. Please note that "apple.sgi.com" has existed for about three year. This has never caused routing problems because sgi (a.k.a sgi.com and sgi.sgi.com) has never had a direct UUCP link to apple.com, so that there has never existed valid pathalias output of the form "...!sgi!apple!...". It is also true that sgi has been routing (not rerouting) UUCP mail with pathalias for 3 or 4 years. Again, please refrain from even thinking of suggesting that people using machines within the sgi.com domain be forced to type FQDN's on internal mail. I would hope that most people would know to mail to "user@apple.sgi.com", and forget the whole ! business. That is not relevant to someone who is trying to route around a black hole, has used pathalias or the raw maps to get a route to user@apple.sgi.com that avoids the hole, and has typed ...!bionet!oracle!decwrl!sgi!apple!user. I have personally had occassion to do this sort of thing when BARRNet and CSNET links have been down or suspected to be down, and I did not want to or could not get someone out of bed. Vernon Schryver vjs@sgi.comj