Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!olivea!orc!bu.edu!purdue!spaf From: spaf@cs.purdue.EDU (Gene Spafford) Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Re: Missing mission Message-ID: <11502@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> Date: 31 Aug 90 02:40:35 GMT References: <11446@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> <1990Aug26.063940.29357@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> <36814@ut-emx.UUCP> Sender: news@cs.purdue.EDU Reply-To: spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University Lines: 54 In article <36814@ut-emx.UUCP> mnemonic@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Mike Godwin) writes: >Gene Spafford says he is disappointed with items he believes are >"missing" from the Electronic Frontier Foundation missing statement. > >One thing that seems to be missing from his own statements is >an admission that he was wrong to accept the government's characterization >of the "theft" in the Neidorf and related Bell South cases. > >If it had not been for the efforts of Spafford and like-minded >individuals who promoted the all-hackers-are-dangerous-criminals-who- >deserve-extreme-sanctions mentality, it is possible that no one would >have seen the need for an EFF. As a law student, Mike, I believe you would understand the definitions of libel and slander? Making false statements about another in a public forum falls under such definitions, does it not? I have never promoted any such philosophy as you claim. Nor have I ever expended any effort on behalf of such a cause. I have, however, objected to the false characterization that "anyone who calls himself a hacker and is prosecuted by the government is obviously a wrongly-persecuted innocent." I don't believe I owe anyone an apology. You do. I have worked as a consultant for a number of firms and government agencies. I have seen transcripts of login sessions where hackers damaged files, boody-trapped systems, stole proprietary information, and crashed systems. I have had my own machine broken into and damaged. I know from personal experience that there are some real rotten people out there. The existance of those people certainly doesn't excuse slipshod or incorrect prosecution. But it does mean that there are legitimate reasons why law enforcement officials are trying to catch and prosecute some of them. I haven't seen any evidence of the sinister conspiracy theories some people have been promoting. Ignorance, perhaps. Frustration, perhaps. But not evil intent. People are losing time and money because of unauthorized users, and the law enforcement personnel are trying to respond -- that's their job. Unfortunately, they don't have the tools or training to do it as well as they should, nor do they have the cooperation. That doesn't mean they are going to ignore the victims. Along with the vigorous protestations about rights, I think it would be much more constructive to think up ways to stop cracking/hacking and help catch the transgressors than it would be to continue to publicly slam people who don't necessarily agree with you. -- Gene Spafford NSF/Purdue/U of Florida Software Engineering Research Center, Dept. of Computer Sciences, Purdue University, W. Lafayette IN 47907-2004 Internet: spaf@cs.purdue.edu uucp: ...!{decwrl,gatech,ucbvax}!purdue!spaf