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From: jonah@amos.ucsd.edu (Jonah Stich)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: GIF => 3200 colors?
Message-ID: <12469@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>
Date: 30 Aug 90 05:46:13 GMT
References: <139800018@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> <12421@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> <443@fawlty.towers.oz>
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In article <443@fawlty.towers.oz> johnmac@fawlty.ips.oz (John MacLean) writes:

Okay, let me fist say that my post was not intended to pick on TGE or SHR
Convert. THese both serrve legitimate purposes--to convert picturs from x to y,
where x and y are just about anything. That's not what GIF 3200 is for--it's
for FAST conversioins of GIFs to 320 mode (I'll probably never support 640,
though I WILL support pictures that are biggere than 320x200 in the next
release) in 16, 256, and 3200 colors. That's it.

>2) TGE does not assume every graphic you get will have < 16 colors on a
>scanline (it stores and transfers every pixel as an RGB value).

I don't get this one. GIF 3200 does this, too. It does the best conversion
it can with pictures with 256 colors. (Note: I've written this new median-cut
quantizer, and it blows the socks off the old ones. This things makes 16 color
picturres that look as good as some 3200 color pictures I've seen. And you 
should see the 3200 color pitcures.... Coing in a few days to a newsfeed
near you! :)

>4) I treat loading and optimizing GIFs as seperate operations which is
>really silly for a display program. TGE is not a display program - it
>is a conversion program which aims at getting the best posiible
>results. If you you try TGE on a 256 color GIF and optimize to 16
>palettes you get static graphics as good as many 3200 graphics.
>I presume the figure quoted above was for a load + optimize. The
>optimize would not usually even be necessary unless you have more
>than 30 colors in the GIF.

Granted. THe figures abover were for a picture of the space shuttle taking off,
a 320x200x256/16777216 color graphic. It took 23 seconds to load into TGE,
and another 32 seconds to scale the colors down to 16. GIF 3200 loaded and
scaled in 12 seconds, with equivalent results.

>Having said all of this, there is an important role for a display
>(and even a file conversion) program such as Jonahs. It is good to
>be able to load a graphic and easily display it in various ways
>(ie: without doing transfers). A program dedicated to this purpose
>can do better than TGE - I have one in some sort of state myself.

True, very true. The important point here is not what one does another doesn't
but that there are FINALLY more than one converters! (Uggghhh... my English
teacher would kill me for that sentence! :) I hear thare are another few on
the way, too. Did you ever think you'd be complaining about the GS having TOO
MANY programs? :)

>Just a quick question:
>Can you compare the Save times for SHR Convert, TGE, and your program
>for GIFs Jonah?

Ah, I did some tests on this today. I saved a 32 color pic as a GIF in both
TGE and SHR Convert. GIF 3200 doesn't do saves--only loads--so this isn't an
issue. The times were: SHR Convert: 9 minutes exactly; TGE: 3 minutes, 30
seconds. Also, I must point out that when I reloaded the GIF, TGE had scaled
it down to 5 colors, and SHR Convert doown to the 16 I was expecting. Then
again, I have a beta version of TGE with no manual, so it was moore likely my
fault than TGE's.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm kinda fond of TGE: it really does convert from
any x to y. When (if?) Roger Wagner ever brinigs out v4.2.x, rush out and
buy a copy. It's WELL worth it! (Use GIF 3200 for your GIF conversions, though!
:)

>John MacLean.

Jonah
jonah@amos.ucsd.edu