Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!apple!ig!dow From: dow@presto.ig.com (Christopher Dow) Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms Subject: Re: Re: Does everybody hate windows? Keywords: Windows, success, hate, Microsoft=devil, Microsoft=god Message-ID: Date: 4 Sep 90 16:29:02 GMT Organization: IntelliGenetics, Inc. Lines: 48 This is interesting. I have been reading all this hatred of Windows from people, and I just can't figure it out. There are things about Windows that none of the other window systems has: DDE, MDI, and other things that come from and "operating environment" that can't be had with standard models of windowing systems. I have used Macs, Sun Workstations run- ning X and SunView, VaxStations running DecWindows and WGS, and PC with and without Windows. In addition, I have written programs for Windows, Mac, and X. From all of this I have come the the following opinions: 1.) With 3.0 Windows is as good as any of the above- mentioned windowing systems (note the absence of NeXTStep), and better than the Mac for often-used window manipulations (Resizing, Iconofying, etc.). 2.) All one has to do is look at Motif, PM, Windows, OpenLook, SunView to see that the "program manager" (generic) paradigm is the standard, and the Finder paradigm is the _exception_. (Icons are programs, not files, and you set up the icons in the manager with and install or by hand). 3.) The window manipulation gizmos are the same as Motif, which everyone who matters in the computer industry supports with the exception of NeXT, Sun, and AT&T (and I do mean that Apple supports it, too). Also, when one clics in a similar place in a window, a similar thing happens. This is an extremely powerful concept. Users can change computers and already know how to use the new system. 4.) The Mac has lower-level toolkit than the other systems, and therefore requires more code to write programs than Windows or X. There are some bad things about Windows, like worth- less Microsoft support, bad debugging(compared to X or the Mac), Expensive tools, etc. The Mac, on the other hand, has no command line (unless you count MPWW), has a kludged file system that NOONE really understands, and the hardware is fascist (one vendor) and expensive. So take your pic. Overall, I think that 3.0 is a _definite_ improvement over the Mac from the user's viewpoint.