Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: emory!dragon!cms@gatech.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Rosary Message-ID: Date: 4 Sep 90 07:07:31 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Projects Unlimited Lines: 174 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , stabosz@sun.udel.edu (Rae Stabosz) writes: > I go on & off with my praying of the rosary. It's an excellent > meditative prayer, & I have lots of books on how others have prayed > it. Those are fun, esp. the ones with illustrations of the mysteries. > I have some woodcuts that I often use as a meditative focus, from one > of these books. I love the woodcuts too. My favorite meditation picture as a child was for the First Glorious Mystery: Against a hazy, grayish background, a naked Jesus is lying on a stone slab; one knee is raised, his headcloth has fallen off to the side, other white burial cloths are falling off his body, as he is rising within the tomb. I used to think, "My God, he really did rise again." I love the First Glorious Mystery; I used to cheat and pray it twice :-). > I don't like praying it with others so much, for a couple of reasons. > In my Roman Catholic parish, praying the rosary after Saturday morning > Mass is a custom, but it has become somewhat politicized. The nuclear > rosary group is also identified as the more conservative group, some of > whom broke off from our religious education program to form their own > more traditional program. There were bad feelings about that whole > process, & I just can't get around the politicization of issues when > the Saturday morning rosary begins, so I usually leave. Weird. I > hate not being at peace when at prayer. It's too bad the Rosary has become politicized in that way. Perhaps you could form your own Rosary group; there are lots of different organizations devoted to Mary in the Rosary. The Anglican Society of Mary has Wards in the Roman Catholic Church, but perhaps you could start a Legion of Mary (which is Roman Catholic), which as I recall is heavily into Louis de Montfort spirituality about which you speak in a moment. On the other hand, you could just start a simple Rosary group unaffiliated with anyone :-). I do know what you mean about praying the Rosary individually, however. When I pray the Rosary by myself, I pray at my own pace, lingering over one Mystery as I need to, or speeding past another one, to delve more deeply into the next one. The first three Hail Mary beads (on the tail, as we call it :-)), prayed before the Rosary proper begins, are traditionally prayed for faith, hope, and love; I have occasionally prayed a decade on the faith bead when I felt that my faith needed strengthening. You can't really do that in a group. The same is true of the Fourteen Stations of the Cross. Working through the Stations at your own pace can be more spiritually uplifting, although I'm not discounting group prayer. You know what I mean? > CIndy, you have spoken of being consecrated (is that the right verb to > describe it for you?) to Mary in some capacity. I have been consecrated > to Mary via the St. Louis de Montfort "True Devotion" consecration for > about 15 years. I go on & off with what this means, & who Mary is & how > I am to live out my commitment to Christ in this manner. But the rosary > is a part of this devotion, not as integral as in some other devotions. I consecrated my heart to the Immaculate Heart of Mary when I was a child. The consecration was a private thing between myself and God. Louis de Montfort called it "Consecration to Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Wisdom Through the Blessed Virgin Mary," which went like this: "O Eternal and Incarnate Wisdom! O sweetest and most adorable Jesus! True God and true man, only Son of the Eternal Father, and of Mary, always Virgin! I adore you profoundly in the bosom and splendors of Your Father during eternity; and I adore You also in the virginal bosom of Mary, Your most worthy Mother, in the time of Your Incarnation." etc. Subsequent to thanksgiving to God for the Cross of our Redemption, thanksgiving for the intercessions of Mary, living tabernacle of God where the Eternal Wisdom was pleased to dwell, I renewed my baptismal vows thus: "I, a faithless sinner, renew and ratify today in your hands the vows of my Baptism; I renounce forever Satan, his pomps and works; and I give myself entirely to Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Wisdom, to carry my cross after him all the days of my life, and to be more faithful to Him than I have ever been before. In the presence of all the heavenly court I choose you this day for my Mother and my Lady. I deliver and consecrate to you, as your servant, my body and soul, my goods, both interior and exterior, and even the value of all my good deeds, past, present, and future; leaving to you the entire and full right of dispose of me, and all that belongs to me, without exception, according to your good pleasure, for the greater glory of God in time and in eternity." More thanksgivings follow. Then, "O admirable Mother, present me to your dear Son as His eternal servant, so that as He has redeemed me by you, by you may he receive me! O Mother of mercy, grant me the grace to obtain the true Wisdom of God....O faithful Virgin, make me in all things so perfect a disciple, imitator and servant of the Incarnate Wisdom, Jesus Christ your Son, that I may attain, by your intercession and by your example, to the fullness of his age on earth and of his glory in Heaven. Amen." It's a lovely prayer in full but I've chosen to repeat only what I think are the best parts of it. > There is a "little crown of Mary" rosary chaplet which the Montfortians > use also, which I have not used myself for awhile. I checked my files on various kinds of Rosaries and didn't see this one. The closest ones I have are the "little crown of the Infant Jesus of Prague" and this one: The Crown of Our Lord (Camaldolese) The Crown of Our Lord consists of 33 beads -- 3 decades and 3 additional beads commemorating the 33 years of the earthly life of Our Lord. There are two methods of reciting this crown. The first method is as follows: Having made the sign of the cross say: "O God incline unto my aid; O Lord make haste to help me." The mystery is then announced, e.g., "Jesus, Who sweat blood for us, etc." Then follow 1 Hail Mary, 10 Our Fathers, and 1 Glory Be. These are all to be repeated 3 times. Then add 1 Hail Mary, 3 Our Fathers, and another Hail Mary. The 5 Hail Marys are to commemorate the Five Holy Wounds. The second method consists of meditating on an event from the life or passion of Our Lord while saying the prescribed Our Father or Hail Mary. I realize that these must not be the same thing; is it similar? Collecting different kinds of Rosaries is kind of a hobby of mine. Currently, I'm working on an article for the Society of Mary on various kinds of Rosaries. Could you tell me how the "little crown of Mary" is prayed, how many beads (or is a standard Dominican Rosary used), names of Mysteries, etc.? Thanks! > I realize this is rambling. I'm feeling the "anti-Mary" sentiment > that I see in this newsgroup sometimes, breathing down my neck. So > it's hard to verbalize what I want to express. Mostly I wanted to > let CIndy know that there are others out there for whom the rosary is > important also. Also I have enjoyed all CIndy's postings about Anglican > Catholicism. It was an eye-opener to me. I knew that Anglicans & > Episcopalians were close to ROman Catholics in many ways, but I honestly > had no idea that they did not refer to themselves as Protestants. When > I read "a real live Catholic in Georgia" I assumed absolutely that you > meant Roman Catholic, Cindy, so I have learned a lot from your postings. I have defended a lot of Catholic beliefs and practices in the past (both Roman and Anglican), so I know where you're coming from. However, I'm hoping that we have a discussion about the spirituality of the Rosary (as well as other Catholic topics) without a great deal of conflict. Generally, when discussing other religions such as Mormonism or Judaism, I try to find out what they believe, how I'm mistaken if I am mistaken, and read a lot, ask a lot of questions, etc., without attacking. I regret having appeared a bit harsh on Mormon beliefs without making a greater effort to understand how _they_ feel about what they believe. No doubt Mormons wish a forum to discuss their faith without conflict as well. What bothers me about Mormonism is their repudiation of the validity of all Christian denominations as well as the Trinity. I have great respect for Protestant beliefs and practices and I hope they will ask questions about Catholic spirituality, such as in the Rosary, without repudiating its validity. > Rae Yours in Christ, Cindy Smith Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter A Real Live Catholic in Georgia A dyed-in-the-wool Southern Catholic in the Anglican Communion "For us the causes of justice and social concern are an essential part of evangelization. Our own history has taught us that preaching to the poor and to those who suffer injustice without concern for their plight and the systemic cause of their plight is to trivialize the Gospel and mock the cross. To preach to the powerful without denouncing oppression is to promise Easter without Calvary, forgiveness without conversion and healing without cleansing the wound." The Social Apostolic on Black Catholics in the U.S. Catholic Almanac 1990 (pg. 488)