Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!jarthur!nntp-server.caltech.edu!news From: zix@cs.nott.ac.uk (Zafer Iqbal) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: Muslim View on Middle East conflict Message-ID: <1990Aug30.013017.1192@laguna.ccsf.caltech.edu> Date: 30 Aug 90 01:30:17 GMT Sender: news@laguna.ccsf.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 120 Approved: bes@tybalt.caltech.edu In article <1990Aug25.020408.368@laguna.ccsf.caltech.edu> zama@midway.uchicago.edu (iftikhar uz zaman) writes: >Zafer Iqbal writes: >>According to Islam, what Sadam has done is correct. Borders between 2 Muslim >>countries should not exist!!! > >Wow! > Good stuff hey!!! 8^) >>Islam requires unification of Muslim countries > >And wow again! Zafer, living in this land where there are few Muslim >around us I have found that we tend to get too intimate with this >"Islam": being forced to continuously explain what "Islam sez" on one >topic or another, and being listened to like authorities on any issue >dealing with Islam, my feeling is that the phrase "According to >Islam..." slips off too easily from our tongues. My own solution to this >has been that whenever I hear myself doing the "Islam sez" routine, to try >to find WHERE "Islam" says the thing I hear it(/him?) saying it. > > What we have here is a fatwa: you have decided that there is some >nass ("textual evidence": Quran, saying of the Prophet or some such) which >demands that there be no borders between Muslim countries. I honestly can't >think of where this nass might be. Can you? However, I do know that there >are explicit ayahs in the Quran which speak of the evil of Muslims fighting >Muslims. Look it up in your favorite concordance but it begins like this: >"In ta'ifatan min al-muminin iqtatalu..." Roughly the meaning is that if >two groups of Muslims begin to battle, try to find a way to bring about >peace between them, if this is not possible and one is intent on doing >injustice to the other ("in baghat ihdahuma...") then fight the one that >does the injustice... > Also, there is the explicit saying of the Prophet that the blood of >a Muslim is haram (forbidden) to any other Muslim except for three things-- >apostasy, adultery and murder. [La yahillu dam imar'in Muslim illa bi ihda >thalath: kufrun ba`d iman, wa zina ba`d ihsan wa qatl nafs bi ghayr haqq-- >or words to that effect, from A'isha in Muslim Abu Da'ud etc.]. Now the >fatwa you have given is that the demands of uniting the borders of Muslims >outweigh the demands of this hadith, and of the ayah in the Quran referred >to above. THIS IS fatwa: the weighing of all the textual evidence of the >Quran and the hadith to judge which of all the evidence is the most appropriate >to apply to the specific situation at hand. Do you really feel qualified >for this task? > Everything I contribute to this BB are not my own personal opinions (which I keep to myself)!!! The only contributions are from Islam and have evidences to support them but I usually avoid giving all the evidences since I did not think that that anyone out there was keen on all the evidences since these are all topics which are pretty well known! Anyway, getting back to the first statement I made, I meant that it was correct for Sadam to attempt to unite Iraq and Kuwait and rermove the border between the two countries!!! Removal of the borders that the kafir have put therer for us is compulsary and we must push for it at every opportunity: reffered to the muslim ummah as ummatun wahada - one nation! And Muhammed (SAW) has said "Whoso comes to you while your affair has been united under one man, intending to divide your staff or dissolve your unity, kill him" (Muslim) Also its fard to remove foreign kufr presence from our lands whether they're American forces in Arabia or Israelis in Palestine! "O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near you and let them find harshness in you and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty unto him!" 9:123. >>Secondly it is haram to have to rely on kufr for the defence of Muslims!!! >>The Saudi puppet regime should have been overthrown long ago as should most of >>the existing puppet regimes (including Sadam!). > > Once again, this is fatwa. A vague "Islam says" will not be good enough >here. Let me take this opportunity to point out something I learned from >a learned man a little while ago: a mas'ala is a "general rule" regarding >some religious issue--for example, that if one falls asleep after making >ablutions for prayers, one has to repeat the ablutions, or that if one has >money which is unused for a whole year one has to give zakah on it. >Similar to this might be a mas'ala you learn that "borders of Muslims must >be united" (though I don't know whether this is a correct mas'ala). A fatwa >is where you take the general rule and apply it to a specific situation: >this really requires a lot more. Anybody can repeat a mas'ala he has >learned, but a fatwa is a judgement in which you must take all the various >mas'alas which apply to a situation and see which most appropriately fits >the situation at hand... > I think many a mufti would think twice about giving fatwa on the situation >in Iraq... > Respectfully yours, > your brother in Islam, > Iftikhar. I would never attempt to give a fatwa! There have been fatwa's given on these topics and scholars have given rulings ion these topics!!! For instance recently a fatwa was given in Jerusalem that those Muslims who fight with the Americans, against Muslims, their blood is halaal for you!!! As I said above, it is haram to rely on kaffir on defence of Muslims and also to request help from the us, britain, russia etc. Abu Hamid As-Saidi reelated that Muhammed(SAW) left Medinah until he arrived at Thaen-et-al-Wadfda amd when he saw a regiment there he said: "Who are they?" They sayd a tribe of Bani Qaayunqwa the relative of Abdullah bin Salam. He sad"Do you accept Islam?" They said"No" He Said "Leave, we don't take assistance from disbelievers" It's narrated by Ahmad and An Nisai from Anas that Muhammed(SAW) said: "Don't take the light from the the fire of the disbelievers" In arabic fire means their own weapons and military as a state or a tribe! It's haram to ask for defence by the kafir 'cos that will allow defending Muslims and Muslim countries at the hand of kufr when it is not allowed for the kafir to have authority over Muslims! Allah(SWT) in An-Nisai:141 refers to this prohibition "and Allah will not give the disbelievers any way (of authority) against the believers" This means that it's not allowed for the kafir to have any authority or ruling over the Muslims and Muslim countries! Abu Hanifah said: "Dar al Islam (the land of Islam) is any land where Islam is implemented as a whole and where security is in the hands of the believers so if the security comes in the hand of kafir the land becomes dar al kufr (the land of kufr) immediately!" If you want any more details on this, e-mail my mail address and I'll send you some stuff! Wasalaam. Your-brother-in-Islam Zafer