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From: aabiyaba@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Muslim/Christian
Message-ID: <11488@accuvax.nwu.edu>
Date: 30 Aug 90 18:12:27 GMT
Sender: news@accuvax.nwu.edu
Lines: 85
Approved: naim@eecs.nwu.edu (Naim Abdullah)

In article <1990Aug30.021227.2345@laguna.ccsf.caltech.edu> approved by
bes@tybalt.caltech.edu, goer@midway.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
reminds newsgroup debaters that they should have a better grasp of their
opponents perceptions.  He goes on to sketch the Christian/western 
(excuse the ambiguity) view of some Muslim arguments.  I will attempt to
clarify the Muslim position on some points that he brought up:

Revelation:
o	I are Muslims because I believe in the Unicity of God and in the
	Prophethood of Muhammed [pbuh].
o	The primary credential of this unlettered prophet is the 
	eloquent Quran the words of which I am convinced were "revealed"
	as God saw fit.
o	To be sure, the Quran is only part of God's revelation through
	history.  But whereas God may inspire otherwise (this is the reason
	the Sunnah [topic of another discussion] of the Prophet is considered
	another primary source of Islam) the Quran is a clear record in its
	own right.

Preservation of the Revelation:
o	The verses of the Quran were revealed at particular times and places
	for which they had particular bearing.  But as the Quran itself
	states, some verses are clear and others more "esoteric";
	furthermore, in addition to the apparent meaning of the words there
	are other meanings; only God knows all the meanings.
o	Far be it for us to change the words of the Quran - the words and the
	history of their revelation are clear signs that are accessible,
	perhaps not fully immediately comprehensible, to all.
o	Muslims in different times have interpreted the verses in order to
	apply it to their particular situations; but their understanding is
	just that - their understanding.  We will not treat it as a definitive
	treatment of religion but only use it as an aid in our individual
	attempts to follow the signposts of God.
o	It is unthinkable for us to uproot and repaint the signpost that is
	the Quran.
o	And just to be sure, there are thousands of Muslims who have put
	the entire Quran, with its intonations/inflecions/deflecions, to heart.
	Indeed the Quranic recitation contests that are held in modern times
	are an extension of this tradition which has its roots in the days
	of the revelation and in the society in which memory was highly prized.

Translation:
o	Unlike your representation of the Christian view of "new" Bibles,
	translations of the Quran are distinct from the Quran itself.
	The Quran is preserved intact.  History is less well preserved.
	Anyone and everyone is welcome to try to understand it and apply it.

Fundamentalism:
o	In the strictest sense of the word, every observant muslim is a
	"fundamental"ist becasuse it is the fundamentals which define a
	system - and the primary fundamental of Islam is the event of the
	Quran.
o	I hope you see the difference between a "bible thumping Christian 
	fundamentalism" and the islamic fundamentalism of pop-culture.
o	The internal and external conflicts involving muslims cannot be 
	forced to fit the mold of christian religious history just as, as
	you have stated, debaters ought to know what they are talking about.
	
Internal Muslim Dialogue:
o	This topic deserves more justice than can be done here; suffice it
	to say that my attempt at a linguistically correct definition of the
	participants in this dialogue would include words such as "literalist"
	"extreme literalist", "traditionalist", "Islamic modernist",
	"modernist", "reinterpretationist", "traditional reinterpretationist",
	"scholasticist" and "mysticist".
	[Inexhaustive non-exclusive list].

While I empathize with your frustration at some bizarre "muslim" arguments,
if you still equate these essentials of Islam (revelation, preservation of
revelation) with the mythology of "primitive ideologues", so be it.

>From my (imperfect) memory:
	"And when it is said to them believe as the people believe
	 they say: Should we believe as the fools believe?
	 It is they who are the fools but know not."
					-Very early part of Sura Baqara.
	"when he(they?) is(are?) shown Our signs
	 he(they?) say(says?): the legends of primitive folk."
					-Early part of a Sura in the
					 the last thirtieth of the Quran
				
Ahmed Biyabani
aabiyaba@athena.mit.edu

PS: 	This was written in haste; sorry about the "references".