Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!decwrl!argosy!jay
From: jay@argosy.UUCP (Jay O'Conor)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: Oracle for the Mac (really 4D)
Message-ID: <672@argosy.UUCP>
Date: 11 Sep 90 22:51:58 GMT
References: <49079@seismo.CSS.GOV> <28@genco.uucp> <4331@etsu.CMI.COM> <30@genco.uucp> <4359@etsu.CMI.COM>
Sender: news@argosy.UUCP
Reply-To: jay@idiot.UUCP (Jay O'Conor)
Organization: MasPar Computer Corporation, Sunnyvale, CA
Lines: 45

In article <4359@etsu.CMI.COM> kevin@cmi.com (Kevin Hegg) writes:

	< stuff deleted >

>We have not totally abandoned 4D, but it is rapidly falling out of grace. 
>We try to objectively look at each project and determine what the 
>successes and failures were and whether we received an adequate return on 
>our investment. With 4D we feel that we have not received a return on our 
>investment.  I don't doubt that people are and will continue developing 
>with 4D, but our experience tells us that it is a poor development tool 
>for non-trivial applications. I know most people want to believe that 
>their application is non-trivial, but in many cases this just isn't so. 4D 
>will probably satisfy those with trivial data manipulation tasks. 

Hmmm...  Either you're missing something or many people are performing
magic with 4D every day.  One such case is a company started by former
coworkers of mine in Maryland.  Their company now has several commercial
packages written in 4D.  They swear by (and at) it.  They're not blind
to it's shortcomings.  They've learned 4D enough to understand it's
limitations and avoid them.  It's really not different from any
interpreted environment.  Personally, if there isn't a way to see the
assembler source, I don't want to touch it.  I have been around enough
though to realize that not everyone feels that same way.  These friends
of mine left their comfortable jobs to create a startup company based on
creating products in 4D.  They _are_ sucessful.  I would say that being
able to create a startup company around 4D represents a very good return
on investment.  I'm sure there are other 4D sucess stories like this out
there.
It's necessary to recognize that the tools are different.  Different
does not mean inadequate.  As I expressed before, being able to see
assembler source is one tool that I _personally_ find indespensible.  Other
people are comfortable with other tools.  This is fine.
Unless you're willing to learn the tools it'll be a problem for you.
This is true of anything.  Simply based on the existance of sucessful
companies creating products in 4D, I'd have to conclude that 4D is OK,
and you are unwilling to learn it to the extent necessary (no flame intended).

>Kevin Hegg, EDS Corp - Center for Machine Intelligence
>2001 Commonwealth Blvd., Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105
>Phone:   (313) 995-0900  Internet: kevin@cmi.com    Applelink: D5990


Jay O'Conor
MasPar Computer Corporation
jay@maspar.com