Xref: utzoo comp.object:1736 comp.lang.c++:9391 comp.lang.eiffel:1082 comp.lang.smalltalk:2213 comp.software-eng:4140 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!orc!inews!iwarp.intel.com!psueea!pdxgate!eecs!warren From: warren@eecs.cs.pdx.edu (Warren Harrison) Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: TOOLS '91 (March 4-8) - Call for Papers Keywords: Technology of Object-Oriented Languages and Systems Message-ID: <34@pdxgate.UUCP> Date: 4 Sep 90 19:15:41 GMT References: <402@eiffel.UUCP> <1990Sep2.193720.17672@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@pdxgate.UUCP Reply-To: warren@eecs.UUCP (Warren Harrison) Organization: Portland State University, Portland, OR Lines: 83 In article sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes: > ... some stuff objecting to call for papers being posted ... >They use our resources to make a worldwide >call for papers, and then sell the bound journals at outrageous prices that >students can't afford. I saw a collection of Siggraph papers for $136!!! why are these just *your* resources? Almost all of the call for papers you're referring to are posted by volunteer organizers of the conferences - no one involved with organizing *any* ACM/IEEE (nor most others) conference gets a penny out of the deal (except for the headquarters staff whose involvement is minimal). I've not done anything with SIGGRAPH, but I have served as Treasurer/Registrar for the SIGPLAN annual conference and I helped out with an ACM CSC or two in my grad student days. I can honestly tell you no one is getting rich off the proceeds. In every case, the net is the organizer's resource too. The people who respond to the call for papers also can claim the net as their resource - most of them don't complain. Further, the net is not the sole distribution medium for the call for papers, most people also send out flyers, list their event in ACM CACM (for free) and IEEE Computer (for free) and many other magazines (for free). Also, extra proceedings, etc. which *are* sold after the conference are used as additional revenue to help front the following year's conference. A small conference (~400 people) will cost upwards of $200,000 to put on once the hotel space, lunches, etc. are paid for. I understand SIGGRAPH is *huge* - I can only guess at their costs. Most pro forma budgets include a line item for extra copies of proceedings which will be sold afterwords. This additional revenue source also allows us to keep registration fees relatively low (compare fees for an ACM conference with one of the true profit motivated conferences such as the CASE expo DCI puts on - registration will be $200- $300 at an ACM event, $1,000 or more at the profit making conference) In addition, the "profits" generated by a conference sponsored by an ACM SIG or an IEEE TC will help fund that organization too. This allows the special interest group to fund smaller conferences which would otherwise not break even. I hope you can understand that just like the publishers of your textbooks the proceedings which are sold after the fact have to cover more than just their printing costs. There are alternatives to buying a proceedings - if you're a student. If it is for educational use, you can make photocopies from the library copies or a copy borrowed from a faculty member. Likewise, when a conference is within reasonable driving distance, contact the registrar a month or so before it starts. There are typically *significant* student discounts for registration (often as much as a 75% discount - this is also funded by those extra copies of proceedings) which will include a proceedings. Also most registrars *love* to have volunteers to help with registration - getting 400 people signed up in one morning isn't fun by yourself! Students can almost *always* get free registration this way. Many times a local school will have low cost student rooms you can rent too, in order to avoid paying for a hotel room if it's not within commuting distance. > >So whenever I see a "Call for Papers" I'm going to keep pointing this out >until either people start saying "Hey! This *is* a ripoff!" or I determine >that I simply can't make any changes. This isn't a ripoff. However, it *is* a good question. I hope I was able to explain why the cost of conference proceedings are so seemingly high. > >Educational materials, especially those gathered using the aid of this >network, should not be priced outrageously. Ideally, they would be done in >a non-profit fashion for the cost of printing, binding, and labor, but that >would be too much to hope for. As I pointed out, the cost of producing the materials *has* to include the cost of organizing the conference (the purpose of the conference by the way is *not* to produce proceedings like a magazine or book, but to hold an event and provide attendees with a record of what went on - whatever extras are left are sold, but there is no intention to stock any book stores). > >Sean >-- >*** Sean Casey sean@ms.uky.edu, sean@ukma.bitnet, ukma!sean >*** rec.pyrotechnics: "Blow up or shut up." Warren ========================================================================== Warren Harrison warren@cs.pdx.edu Department of Computer Science 503/725-3108 Portland State University