Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!uunet!world!bzs From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Re: Musing on Constitutionality Message-ID: Date: 11 Sep 90 19:02:42 GMT References: <3108@mindlink.UUCP> <56@hyprion.ddmi.com> Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) Organization: The World Lines: 79 In-Reply-To: rabbit@hyprion.ddmi.com's message of 11 Sep 90 00:54:09 GMT The problem is quite clear... If criminals aren't caught etc then clearly they have won. BUT the problem I believe most people on this group are concerned with is: If the (relatively few) criminals manage to create an atmosphere of fear and cause basic rights and our ability to do business to be under attack THEN THE CRIMINALS HAVE ALSO WON! Perhaps that latter is not a result they want, but the effect is in many ways more heinous. In the former case, we can take care and learn how to protect ourselves from, what we hope remains, a small minority of irresponsible or malicious people, random chance. In the latter case, we are all under attack and the govt is acting as a pervasive agent in all our lives, we can't defend against that by putting "bars on the windows" etc., when the govt knocks to take our systems we have to let them in the front door. So, although responsible use and ethical issues are certainly an interesting topic, right now we have an atmosphere of fear created by recent, very real events. I run a public access unix system, I make a good part of my livelihood off it. Right now I don't know if a competitor or malicious person can create an account, put some credit card numbers in a private file in that account (or even just mail them to himself or perhaps to an account that hasn't logged in recently, from some other phony account) and call the SS to put me out of business (I assure you, carting my systems away would send me downtown in one hour to just file Chapter 11 and throw in the towel, I can't imagine how I'd begin to cover overhead in such a situation.) Basically, the current situation sucks. And believe me, potential investors are well aware of these risks from the government. Swell. See, that's the sort of second-order effect one has to deal with, as they say, "in the real world". If one is concerned with criminals, well, there are various ways to deal with it which usually just increase the cost of doing business a little. But if the govt is threatening to act in arbitrary and unpredictable ways everyone runs for the hills, you can't fight City Hall as they say (oh, you can be a martyr but it ain't a way to make a living unless you're a lawyer..., and I can assure you investors aren't interested in the injustice of it all.) I'll chance the occasional cracker, I can tighten up security, I can do frequent backups and other techniques. But I can't do a thing against being harrassed by my govt the way places like Steve Jackson Games have been. Even being exonerated in the end would be an almost useless outcome, swell, they destroyed my business and my career but I should be thankful they didn't send me to jail? THE CURRENT ATMOSPHERE OF FEAR MUST BE STOPPED!!! Consider this a cry of anguish, pain and anxiety from a fellow citizen. "...in this country, you do not call the police, they call you..." -What a friend was told when he was robbed years ago in a well-known east-bloc country. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | {xylogics,uunet}!world!bzs | bzs@world.std.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD