Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!brolga!ggm
From: ggm@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (George Michaelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Internet routing Europe - USA -} Europe...
Keywords: JANET, protocols
Message-ID: <1990Sep7.052615.1896@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au>
Date: 7 Sep 90 05:26:15 GMT
References: <1990Aug30.091435.1982@ircam.ircam.fr <1990Sep5.092510.22637@cs.city.ac.uk> <13713@ulysses.att.com> <68687@sgi.sgi.com>
Organization: Prentice Computer Centre, The University of Queensland, Australia.
Lines: 62

Jeez, this is getting boring.

More bullshit is talked about IP vs X.25, JANET vs Rest-of-the-world
than all the AI/Compsci debates strung end-to-end on a petrinet and
hung out to dry. Nobody with any sense give a DAMN. Religious warfare
is for celtic and rangers fans and the Jihad mob only. 

Saying IP will prevent OSI migration on JANET is a load of crap. 
There are more proto-OSI applications running over IP as virtual network 
layer than there are good CLNS or CONS based systems. It will SPEED UP 
OSI migration by getting applications into peoples hands BEFORE 
(yearsplus) the network and transport layers are in place.

Look: transports are only interesting to TS and NS level phreaks. nobody
else should or need be worried. fake it. it works.

JANET II backbone speeds can cope fine. ditto available IP tunnelling code
for X.25. Only problem is number of non-"real" IP subnets in use within
JANET. I bet there are not that many. IXI is going to cause enough problems
to make IP into JANET simple.

Yes, the reversed domain names will have to go (in some contexts). 
No, that does not destroy the fundamentals of the coloured books. 
I see no reason why existing users of blue book FTP, JTMP or PAD 
should have to stop, I dont even want them to. I just want to be
able to REACH them without crass work-arounds. 

Just give them the choice. I've used all three (CB, IP, OSI) and still
do. I dont see any reason to make my long term pro-OSI stance prevent
me using eg IP to do day-to-day work. I can't see what the fuss is about.

I bet 90% of all UK universities run BOTH in parallel internally already.

Aside from loss of face, I can see no reason for stopping IP on JANET. 
This is not 13th C Japan, Hari-Kiri by certain unnamed people who refuse 
to countenance JANET/IP will not be required. F'cryingoutloud they're
PUBLIC SERVANTS not lords and masters. SHOUT LOUDER! LOBBY! GET DRUNK!

Anyhow, if the rumour mill is up to its usually reliable tricks the
selfsame samuraii have caved in already and IP is on its way (from 
misery to happyness to day och aye etc etc ("the proclaimers" a band
from leith docks your daughters went wild over last year) but I digress)
JANET wide within 6 months.

Anybody taking bets?

Anybody counting how many "oooooh so naughty" IP tunnels already run?

Anybody asked PSI or any of the other commercial IP networks to cost
a service in the UK?

Stop fussing. in 10 years it'll seem a joke. Bayonet beat Edison Screw 
but lightbulbs are available in both forms in the shops worldwide, and
nobody knows how to change either.

	-George

-- 
	G.Michaelson
Internet: G.Michaelson@cc.uq.oz.au                     Phone: +61 7 377 4079
  Postal: George Michaelson, Prentice Computer Centre
          The University of Queensland, St Lucia, QLD Australia 4067.